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Thread: Jesus Christ's Biological Origin

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niyoe'es:ah View Post
    FYI: You'll find the word "selected" in the very first line of my response in post #18

    However; there's no evidence to support the theory that Mary was "picked out" of a pool of candidates. It was simply her good fortune to come along in the line of David's biological progeny at just the right time. You see, it wasn't all about Mary, it was all about timing.
    It was neither luck nor good fortune that she was selected by God. It was His will.

    Quote Originally Posted by Niyoe'es:ah View Post
    I prefer to think of it as a second opinion.
    How YOU prefer to think about it is irrelevant.
    It's heresy.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agape View Post
    It's heresy.
    I've heard it said that calling someone's beliefs heresy is a cover-up for one's own dogmatic bigotry.

    /

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niyoe'es:ah View Post
    -


    FYI: You'll find the word "selected" in the very first line of my response in post #18

    However; there's no evidence to support the theory that Mary was "picked out" of a pool of candidates. It was simply her good fortune to come along in the line of David's biological progeny at just the right time. You see, it wasn't all about Mary, it was all about timing.
    Luke 1:28 Niyoe'es:ah Version: “And he came to her and said, "POOF!!! You are now highly favored!!!"

    Gal 4:4 . . But when the time had fully come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law
    I prefer to think of it as a second opinion.
    /
    A King with no queen, a New Adam with no new Eve, does violence to Scripture and all of Judaic/Christian history.
    All about timing indeed, as was the timing of the construction of the Ark of the Covenant. But you don't accept the obvious and multiple typologies therein because they conflict with your preconceptions.
    car·i·ca·ture
    1. description of Church teaching which certain striking characteristics are exaggerated in order to create a comic or grotesque effect.
    it's standard anti-Catholic methodology.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by epostle View Post
    A King with no queen, a New Adam with no new Eve, does violence to Scripture and all of Judaic/Christian history.
    How would that arrangement not be incest with Christ and his mother?

    FYI: According to John 3:3-7, the Spirit of God produces children for the kingdom of God; not women.

    FYI: Yhvh has been a king with no queen since time immemorial, and been getting along just fine that way.

    /
    Last edited by Niyoe'es:ah; 08-18-2017 at 07:35 AM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niyoe'es:ah View Post
    -
    How would that arrangement not be incest with Christ and his mother?
    The Prophet Zephaniah [3:14-18a-20] speaks of the Daughter of Zion, the personification of the city of Jerusalem. Zion was the name of the Jebusite citadel that later became the City of David. In the many texts of the Old Testament that speak of the Daughter of Zion, there is no real distinction to be made between a daughter of Zion and the city of Jerusalem itself.

    In the Old Testament, the title Virgin of Israel is the same as the Daughter of Zion. The image of the bride of the Lord is found in Hosea, Chapters 1-3: It reflects the infidelity of the people to their God.

    Jeremiah 3:3-4 speaks of prostitution and the infidelity of the bride. Virginity in the Old Testament is fidelity to the Covenant. In 2 Corinthians 11:2, Paul speaks of the Church as a pure virgin. Here, virginity is the purity of faith. The Hebrew word used to describe this inner section of the city is “beqervah,” a word formed from the root “qerev” meaning something deep, intimate, situated deep within a person. It also means the maternal womb, the intestines, the breast, the insides of a person, the most secret area of one’s soul where wisdom, spirit, malice and the Law of the Lord dwell. Therefore, the city of Jerusalem has a definite maternal function in the history of salvation.

    Throughout the Old Testament, it is in Zion-Jerusalem that God shall gather together all of his people. In Isaiah 35:10, the tribes of Israel shall gather in Zion. In Ezekiel 22:17-22, the prophet describes God’s purification of his people that shall take place “within” the walls of the city, in the midst of Jerusalem.

    The Second Vatican Council formally called Mary “Daughter of Zion” in the dogmatic constitution on the Church “Lumen Gentium” (No. 52). The Church’s appropriation of this title for the Mother of the Lord has a rich Scriptural foundation. Mary illustrates the prophecies of the Old Testament that ascribed value to the eschatological role of woman as mother both of the Messiah and of the new people of God, the individual person and the whole people being very closely united, in line with the cultural structures of Israel.

    For the prophets, the Daughter of Zion was the spouse of the Lord when she observed the covenant. Mary’s role as Daughter of Zion, or for that matter any of her roles in the life of God’s people, can never be understood independently of Christ and of the Spirit, which he bestows upon all humanity in dying on the cross.

    “Lumen Gentium” says that all theology and Marian piety belong to the mystery of Christ and to the mystery of the Church.

    Mary, Daughter of Zion, is the archetype of the Church as Bride, Virgin and Mother. It is not only biological virginity, but also spiritual virginity, which means fidelity to the Scriptures, openness toward others, and purity in faith. Mary’s words to the servants at the wedding banquet in Cana (John 2:1-12) are an invitation to all peoples to become part of the new people of God. Mary is the new “Daughter of Zion” because she has invited the servants to perfectly obey Jesus the Lord. At Cana this new Daughter of Zion has given voice to all people.

    Both at Cana and at Calvary (in John’s Gospel), Mary represents not only her maternity and physical relationship with her son, but also her highly symbolic role of Woman and Mother of God’s people. At Calvary, more than any other place in the fourth Gospel, Mary is “Mother Zion”: her spiritual maternity begins at the foot of the cross.

    As “Mother Zion,” she not only welcomes and represents Israel, but the Church, the People of God of the New Covenant. At the foot of the cross, Mary is the mother of the new messianic people, of all of those who are one in Christ.

    She who bore Jesus in her womb now takes her place in the assembly of God’s holy people. She is the new Jerusalem: In her own womb was the Temple, and all peoples shall be gathered back to the Temple, which is her Son. The Mother of Jesus is indeed the Mother of all of God’s scattered children. She is Mother of the Church. Mary is the first Daughter of Zion, leading all of God’s people on the journey toward the Kingdom.
    https://zenit.org/articles/shout-for...daughter-zion/

    FYI: According to John 3:3-7, the Spirit of God produces children for the kingdom of God; not women.
    I trust you don't mean women are excluded. John 3:3-7 teaches born again by water baptism.

    FYI: Yhvh has been a king with no queen since time immemorial, and been getting along just fine that way.
    Psalm 45:9 – the psalmist teaches that the Queen stands at the right hand of God. The role of the Queen is important in God’s kingdom. Mary the Queen of heaven is at the right hand of the Son of God.

    1 Kings 2:17, 20 – in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the King does not refuse his mother. Jesus is the new Davidic King, and He does not refuse the requests of his mother Mary, the Queen.

    1 Kings 2:18 – in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the Queen intercedes on behalf of the King’s followers. She is the Queen Mother (or “Gebirah”). Mary is our eternal Gebirah.

    1 Kings 2:19 – in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom the King bows down to his mother and she sits at his right hand. We, as children of the New Covenant, should imitate our King and pay the same homage to Mary our Mother. By honoring Mary, we honor our King, Jesus Christ.

    1 Kings 15:13 – the Queen Mother is a powerful position in Israel’s royal monarchy. Here the Queen is removed from office. But now, the Davidic kingdom is perfected by Jesus, and our Mother Mary is forever at His right hand.

    2 Chron. 22:10 – here Queen Mother Athalia destroys the royal family of Judah after she sees her son, King Ahaziah, dead. The Queen mother plays a significant role in the kingdom.

    Neh. 2:6 – the Queen Mother sits beside the King. She is the primary intercessor before the King.

    http://www.scripturecatholic.com/ble...avidic_Kingdom
    car·i·ca·ture
    1. description of Church teaching which certain striking characteristics are exaggerated in order to create a comic or grotesque effect.
    it's standard anti-Catholic methodology.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by epostle View Post
    A King with no queen, a New Adam with no new Eve
    Kings and queens are usually married and sleep together. Adam and Eve were married and slept together.

    FYI: Your Adam and Eve have it backwards. The original Eve was made from Adam; your Adam was made from Eve.

    FYI: The final Adam as per 1Cor 15:45-47 isn't a human being; it's a spirit being.

    /
    Last edited by Niyoe'es:ah; 08-19-2017 at 07:57 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niyoe'es:ah View Post
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    Kings and queens are usually married and sleep together. Adam and Eve were married and slept together.

    /
    The Queen in the Old Testament is not the wife of the King, but the MOTHER. Surely you are not suggesting that the OT kings slept with their mothers!!! It reminds me of a vulgar slang term!!!

    Adam and Eve were married, but they were not king and queen because no kingdom yet existed. Genesis 3:20 says Eve means "mother of all the living." Who are all the living in Revelation 12:17? And what is a WOMAN doing in that verse? Doesn't God know its a patriarchal system?

    Because of Eve’s disobedience to God and Adam’s cooperation with her, they lost sanctifying grace for themselves and their offspring. Like Eve, Mary was created full of grace. But unlike Eve, Mary remained obedient to God, just as Christ, unlike Adam, remained obedient to God. In cooperation with God, Mary became Mother of the Redeemer and, in cooperation with Christ, she became Mother of the redeemed as well.

    The phrase "New Eve" or similar expressions occur in the early Church Fathers. Take, for example, Justin Martyr, who wrote within a couple of generations of the apostles. In his Dialogue with Trypho the Jew (ca. A.D. 150), Justin explains that Christ destroyed Satan’s work in the same way evil originally entered the world. Evil entered through Eve while she was still a virgin; so too salvation entered through Mary while she was still a virgin. Each woman willingly participated in the act they performed. Neither was an unconscious instrument. Eve listened to the serpent and conceived death. Mary listened to the angel Gabriel and conceived life. Justin sees this clearly in Luke 1:38 when Mary says, "Let it be to me according to your word." Thus, for Justin, Christ’s becoming a man involved his Mother’s willing cooperation in undoing the tangled web of sin that Eve introduced.

    The term "New Eve" is not in the Bible because it doesn't have to be.
    car·i·ca·ture
    1. description of Church teaching which certain striking characteristics are exaggerated in order to create a comic or grotesque effect.
    it's standard anti-Catholic methodology.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by epostle View Post
    The term "New Eve" is not in the Bible because it doesn't have to be.
    Thank you for pointing out that Rome's Marian concepts are non-scriptural, ecclesiastic fantasies; but then so are the concepts of Wiccan and Voodoo.

    /
    Last edited by Niyoe'es:ah; 08-20-2017 at 08:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niyoe'es:ah View Post
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    Thank you for pointing out that Rome's Marian concepts are non-scriptural, ecclesiastic fantasies; but then so are the concepts of Wiccan and Voodoo.

    /
    I had a a feeling I was throwing pearls before swine. I said the TERM New Eve is not in the Bible. It's not the CC that throws Marian concepts out of the Bible. There is plenty there, just not enough for your arbitrary tastes. Your reply is stupid and irrelevant because deeper biblical truths don't fit your shallow preconceptions.

    You can't make an intelligent reply so you resort to baseless insults.
    Last edited by epostle; 08-20-2017 at 07:39 PM.
    car·i·ca·ture
    1. description of Church teaching which certain striking characteristics are exaggerated in order to create a comic or grotesque effect.
    it's standard anti-Catholic methodology.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niyoe'es:ah View Post
    I've heard it said that calling someone's beliefs heresy is a cover-up for one's own dogmatic bigotry.
    Hmmmm, another non-answer.
    What God wills is not a matter of "luck". It has nothing to do with dogmatic bigotry.

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