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Thread: The Only Correct Way To Understand 2 Corinthians 5:1

  1. #1

    Default The Only Correct Way To Understand 2 Corinthians 5:1

    First Read: Mark 14:58 “We heard him say, ‘I will throw down this temple that was made with hands, and in three days I will build another not made with hands.’”

    This is what Paul has in mind at 2 Corinthians 5:1.

    To see that the visible Congregation of God was built with the assistance of human hands, read 1 Corinthians 3: 5-17.

    For a preview of the Congregation built without hands, see Hebrews 12: 22-29.

    2 Cor 5:1 is clearly speaking about the church which we see at 1 Cor 3:5-17 was built with the help of human hands as compared to the perfected spiritual one reserved with God and built by the spirit of God without hands, spoken about at Hebrews 12:22-29.

    That thought needs to be carried on through that 5th chapter of 2 Corinthians else no one can correctly understand what Paul is actually saying.
    Doing My Best To Be Pleasing To God - Nothing Else Matters.

  2. #2

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    great truth mr busyb well put keep in mind the the holy spirit teaches us these things
    Quote Originally Posted by BusyB View Post
    First Read: Mark 14:58 “We heard him say, ‘I will throw down this temple that was made with hands, and in three days I will build another not made with hands.’”

    This is what Paul has in mind at 2 Corinthians 5:1.

    To see that the visible Congregation of God was built with the assistance of human hands, read 1 Corinthians 3: 5-17.

    For a preview of the Congregation built without hands, see Hebrews 12: 22-29.

    2 Cor 5:1 is clearly speaking about the church which we see at 1 Cor 3:5-17 was built with the help of human hands as compared to the perfected spiritual one reserved with God and built by the spirit of God without hands, spoken about at Hebrews 12:22-29.

    That thought needs to be carried on through that 5th chapter of 2 Corinthians else no one can correctly understand what Paul is actually saying.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by doubleuseebee View Post
    great truth mr busyb well put keep in mind the the holy spirit teaches us these things
    I agree whole-heartedly.

    I could know nothing but for the spirit of God revealing it to me. For, I am dumber than a box of rocks, which if you knew my goof-ups in life you would have to agree.

    So I am also proof that what Jesus said about God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

    I have been one of those stones, as dumb as a box of rocks, and now thanks be to Jehovah by means of Jesus Christ through which this stupid one was privileged to be breathed to life by God's holy spirit, I am finally able to speak in company with knowledge (God) and wisdom (Jesus).
    Doing My Best To Be Pleasing To God - Nothing Else Matters.

  4. #4

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    mr busyb he also has already proved himself with many enalienable proofs.
    Quote Originally Posted by BusyB View Post
    I agree whole-heartedly.

    I could know nothing but for the spirit of God revealing it to me. For, I am dumber than a box of rocks, which if you knew my goof-ups in life you would have to agree.

    So I am also proof that what Jesus said about God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

    I have been one of those stones, as dumb as a box of rocks, and now thanks be to Jehovah by means of Jesus Christ through which this stupid one was privileged to be breathed to life by God's holy spirit, I am finally able to speak in company with knowledge (God) and wisdom (Jesus).

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by doubleuseebee View Post
    mr busyb he also has already proved himself with many enalienable proofs.
    No doubt.

    It would be pretty arrogant of me to think he needed me as proof of anything, so do not misunderstand me as if i would dare say anything even slightly close to such an ignorant thing.

    His spirit and what it has done and is doing is the proof. It was the proof in his Son who did not a single thing out and away from that spirit.
    Doing My Best To Be Pleasing To God - Nothing Else Matters.

  6. #6

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    I fully admit that I grow as I go. I do not have all of the answers. In fact, I have had to learn to cease trying to have any of the answers of my own self. I have painfully learned that the answers born of human wisdom are not answers at all, but illusion, disappointment, and pain. It took a great deal of scourging by the love of our fatherly God before I could see that.

    I have learned that one of the major things of Scripture is that man must rise up and out of his individual self, abandoning that illusion of individuality which is only capable of producing selfishness.

    I see that Jehovah's Witnesses have the correct understanding of the use of the Koine' Greek plural and singular pronouns and for that reason are able to accurately know that our individual bodies are not a temple of God. Jehovah's Witnesses correctly understand that the Congregation of the elect of God in Christ, using Christ as the chief cornerstone are built upon him like foundation stones and bricks in the wall of the only true temple of God in which God is able to dwell by spirit.

    But I also see some places where Jehovah's Witnesses need to expand that application further and use that idea more consistently, such as there at 2 Corinthians chapter 5. And God will get them there. It is nothing extraordinary that he might use an ignoble such as myself in that process of waking them up to a simple error. He had to first wake me up to it, so why not use me to implant a seed of that seed he sowed in me?

    When we get until we are able to see the complete abandonment of the concept of an independent self in the "I in them", and in the "abide in me", and the "all in all" of both Christ at Colossians 3:11 and his and our God and Father at places as 1 Corinthians 15:28, as typified in that temple built up in and upon Christ, then we are able to understand much more than before.

    Why do you think the common belief, yes, the desired belief of so many who are incompletely taught, is that they as an individual are indwelled by the holy spirit and that their individual body is the temple of God?

    It is because those ideas stroke their pride. They could not justify standing as judges over others to make themselves feel better about themselves if they accepted that they were a mere organ in a larger body out side of themselves, even as the ones whom they judge, making them equal in the esteem of God.

    There is no need for anxiousness over anything, for God will get us there.
    Doing My Best To Be Pleasing To God - Nothing Else Matters.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by BusyB View Post
    I agree whole-heartedly.

    I could know nothing but for the spirit of God revealing it to me.

    I have been one of those stones, as dumb as a box of rocks, and now thanks be to Jehovah by means of Jesus Christ through which this stupid one was privileged to be breathed to life by God's holy spirit, I am finally able to speak in company with knowledge (God) and wisdom (Jesus).
    you are contradicting yourself.............. you are claiming the spirit of god revealed it directly to you, while you are telling everyone there is no such thing as the spirit indwelling in you.

    you have no clue about jws............. the jw gov body claims ONLY THEY are the faithful slave with the spirit of god working on them and in them, and everyone else on the planet must thus obey them or die......... you are slyly promoting those wicked men.

    you are trying to talk christians out of the indwelling of the spirit they receive by being BORN AGAIN.......... you are preaching jw heresy.

    1 cor 3; 16 ....... don't you know that you yourselves are god's temple and that god's spirit lives in you ?

    the spirit of god individually indwells in each christian, to produce the entire body of christ............ it does not indwell the body of christ through 7 wicked men named the jw gov body who claim to be god's exclusive mouthpiece on earth.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by red blood relative View Post
    you are contradicting yourself.............. you are claiming the spirit of god revealed it directly to you, while you are telling everyone there is no such thing as the spirit indwelling in you.

    you have no clue about jws............. the jw gov body claims ONLY THEY are the faithful slave with the spirit of god working on them and in them, and everyone else on the planet must thus obey them or die......... you are slyly promoting those wicked men.

    you are trying to talk christians out of the indwelling of the spirit they receive by being BORN AGAIN.......... you are preaching jw heresy.

    1 cor 3; 16 ....... don't you know that you yourselves are god's temple and that god's spirit lives in you ?

    the spirit of god individually indwells in each christian, to produce the entire body of christ............ it does not indwell the body of christ through 7 wicked men named the jw gov body who claim to be god's exclusive mouthpiece on earth.
    What seems like a contradiction to us is often only that we do not completely understand what is being said.

    And when what is said feels a bit personal to us due to it's going against something we hold as a precious belief, then our blood pressure elevates, our breathing becomes deeper, and adrenaline makes us feel that we see clearly something that we really don't.

    Just because the spirit does not indwell the individual person does not mean that the spirit has no power to effect work in the individual person. The spirit of God is still able to communicate and work with us just as effectively as if it itself were literally within us.

    Let me explain how this works. Each person has a spirit of their own:

    Proverbs 18:14 "The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear?"

    Proverbs 20:27 "The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly."

    God's spirit is able to communicate with a man's spirit, even as God is able to use a man's spirit to know hidden details about a man's thinking and the things a man loves or does not love.

    In the spirit, information flows from spirit to spirit and is passed along in an unbroken chain. There are good spirits and there are bad spirits, not meaning spirit persons but meaning spirits such as that of excitement which fills the air at a football game. And such spirits have more power than most of us realize. That is why we have laws concerning inciting riots by the effects caused of things we do and say. And God's spirit is more powerful than any of our spirits and he has full control of it and it can influence our thinking and our conduct if we are not cutting ourselves off from it.

    That is the thing about that flow of motivating information which gets passed along as by an unbroken chain of spirits in men and in angels; it can be blocked and that chain become broken. That happened for man in a bad way when Adam sinned and we perpetuate that when we sin. But in a good way we can by knowledge and wisdom consciously choose not to allow ourselves to pickup and pass along bad spirits, not letting them pas through our individual spirit.

    It takes some pondering but when you do ponder it you will see that we are missing out on nothing at all just because God's spirit lives and dwells among us as that temple built up in and upon Jesus' spiritual body. And knowing that we are not so special after all, helps us to remain humble. That helps us to be more compassionate of others rather than setting ourselves up as judges over them so that we can make believe that we are not like them as if we are somehow better than them. That is called "trying to feel good about one's self at the expense of another." And it violates God's love.

    It is good to know that we are not so special after all, for it keeps that divide between us and unrighteous pride wide enough that it is easier for to resist selfish sin.

    And we are at no disadvantage whatsoever. In fact, we are in a far better position than we were before when we incorrectly thought God literally dwells in us as an individual person.

    It can be like the fear of getting flu shot to accept this when we are first informed of it. But there is really nothing about that we should fear. It in no way puts us at a disadvantage and in no way means that God does not communicate with us.

    It means we are in a far better position than was first thought.

    Edit: I want to add something else for you to consider.

    If God literally indwell us then we would really have no free-will and would be like puppets whose expressions of love would have no value or meaning.

    Because we were created to love in the image of God, he allows us our own spirit which by love is willing, yes eager, to communicate with him and listen to him. But just as did Adam, we can also misuse that free will and cut ourselves off from him, disallowing him to communicate to our spirit by means of his spirit.

    Our free-will itself is one way we can know that it cannot be true that God literally indwells us.
    Last edited by BusyB; 08-12-2017 at 03:57 AM.
    Doing My Best To Be Pleasing To God - Nothing Else Matters.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by BusyB View Post

    If God literally indwell us then we would really have no free-will and would be like puppets whose expressions of love would have no value or meaning.

    Because we were created to love in the image of God, he allows us our own spirit which by love is willing, yes eager, to communicate with him and listen to him. But just as did Adam, we can also misuse that free will and cut ourselves off from him, disallowing him to communicate to our spirit by means of his spirit.

    Our free-will itself is one way we can know that it cannot be true that God literally indwells us.
    thanks for all that........... i disagree.

    first though, you mentioned that the jws had it correct, so let me comment on that again............. they believe their gov body are the only ones who have the spirit of the truth coming to them, and everyone else must therefore obey them or die, all because they think god appointed them because of their 1914 BS appointment to be god's exclusive mouthpiece on earth while rutherford's gang pretended to be the TWO PROPHETS of rev 11 while pretending 1914-1918 was the great tribulation.

    careful with jw stuff, cause its WICKED DECEPTIVE

    ok, anyway........ the indwelling does not make you special or haughty, it is something that gives you the insight to figure out the correct path, even though we ignore it most of the time.......... as with the gifts of the spirit, its a specific gift inside you from god that you individually give to build up the body of christ.
    it works the other way around too, like you are saying, the body in turn builds up each other.

    buy you are claiming there is no such thing as the indwelling of the spirit........ sorry, but paul didn't say that.

    john 2; 19 .....break down this body and in 3 days i will raise it up........21, but he was speaking about the temple of his body.......22 when though he was raised up from the dead, his disciples called to mind that he used to say this and they believed the scripture and the saying that jesus said.

    jesus was most definitely talking about being dead for 3 days, and his body was that temple being torn down............. your body is a temple of god......... later comes the new jerusalem completed priesthood temple.......... rev 21......... eph 2; 21..... in union with him the whole building , being harmoniously joined together is growing into a holy temple........... the individuals come first, later they produce the completed entire temple

    2 peter 2; 5 you yourselves also as living stones are being built up a spiritual house for the purpose of a holy priesthood........... the living stone is you.........first you are an individual living temple of god......... later, the entire house is built.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by red blood relative View Post
    thanks for all that........... i disagree.

    first though, you mentioned that the jws had it correct, so let me comment on that again............. they believe their gov body are the only ones who have the spirit of the truth coming to them, and everyone else must therefore obey them or die, all because they think god appointed them because of their 1914 BS appointment to be god's exclusive mouthpiece on earth while rutherford's gang pretended to be the TWO PROPHETS of rev 11 while pretending 1914-1918 was the great tribulation.
    But you are mixing subjects. I made no comment on that point you are mentioning. All you are showing is that you have too much bias in you to stick to the point being made when you respond to posts involving anything to do with the JWs. And quite frankly, I do not appreciate it when others try to drag me into their biases. Please don't do that when you reply to my posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by red blood relative View Post
    careful with jw stuff, cause its WICKED DECEPTIVE
    Thank you for your concern. I hope you will understand that I do not share that sentiment with you. No offense intended.

    Quote Originally Posted by red blood relative View Post
    ok, anyway........ the indwelling does not make you special or haughty, it is something that gives you the insight to figure out the correct path, even though we ignore it most of the time.......... as with the gifts of the spirit, its a specific gift inside you from god that you individually give to build up the body of christ.
    it works the other way around too, like you are saying, the body in turn builds up each other.
    OK, that is your evaluation of it which differs from my evaluation of it.

    So don't listen to me. No one is forcing you to have to.

    Quote Originally Posted by red blood relative View Post
    buy you are claiming there is no such thing as the indwelling of the spirit........ sorry, but paul didn't say that.
    Something does indwell us but the real question is exactly what that is. You say it is literally God's spirit indwells us and I say it is our spirit being conformed to think in agreement with God's spirit thus allowing his knowledge and wisdom to indwell us instead of our own independently formed knowledge and wisdom which always can do nothing but ultimately disappoint us.

    Quote Originally Posted by red blood relative View Post
    john 2; 19 .....break down this body and in 3 days i will raise it up........21, but he was speaking about the temple of his body.......22 when though he was raised up from the dead, his disciples called to mind that he used to say this and they believed the scripture and the saying that jesus said.
    Indeed he was speaking of his body in a figurative way. He was speaking of his body as a figure representing the spiritual body of Christ which the church is transformed into so as to be one flesh as by marriage to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by red blood relative View Post
    jesus was most definitely talking about being dead for 3 days, and his body was that temple being torn down............. your body is a temple of god......... later comes the new jerusalem completed priesthood temple.......... rev 21......... eph 2; 21..... in union with him the whole building , being harmoniously joined together is growing into a holy temple........... the individuals come first, later they produce the completed entire temple
    I see. You are saying it takes temples plural to build a temple singular. I guess i must be mistaken due to his being called "he chief corner stone" and due to places like Revelation 21:19-20 "And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst."

    Well that sure is good to know. (Sarcasm intended)

    Quote Originally Posted by red blood relative View Post
    2 peter 2; 5 you yourselves also as living stones are being built up a spiritual house for the purpose of a holy priesthood........... the living stone is you.........first you are an individual living temple of god......... later, the entire house is built.
    Sure! And it is built of a bunch of individual temples rather than those stones it there says it is built out of. Once again, sarcasm intended.

    If you would make an effort to quiet the biases which are driving your thinking you would stand a chance to begin thinking clearly.

    Edit: changed the word, "quite", to, "quiet" as I originally intended it should read in that last line.
    Last edited by BusyB; 08-12-2017 at 01:40 PM.
    Doing My Best To Be Pleasing To God - Nothing Else Matters.

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