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    Default Insulting?

    Over in the Bible Discussion forum (Errors in the Bible Bother Me thread) this was posted:
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Gillett View Post
    ... I admit that my evidence will not convince you but that still does not invalidate or make it delusional. You calling it delusional is just a plain insult. Just admit that it is possible for me to have genuine personal evidence that I cannot show you. And leave it at that.

    Richard Gillett
    As an atheist, I am bound to conclude that anyone claiming to have a personal relationship with God, which includes being in communication with him, is either deluded or lying.

    I think that lying in this context and on these forums is extremely unlikely.

    So is my being an atheist- in itself - an insult to those like RG?
    Or is it only insulting if I dare express the opinions of an atheist?
    "True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it."Karl K. Popper

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen T-B View Post
    So is my being an atheist an insult to those like RG?
    I don't know. I'm not like him. You being an atheist is not an insult to me.
    The hound of Jewish monotheism.

    "For us there is one God. He is the Father." (I Corinthians 8:6)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen T-B View Post
    Over in the Bible Discussion forum (Errors in the Bible Bother Me thread) this was posted: As an atheist, I am bound to conclude that anyone claiming to have a personal relationship with God, which includes being in communication with him, is either deluded or lying.

    I think that lying in this context and on these forums is extremely unlikely.

    So is my being an atheist- in itself - an insult to those like RG?
    Or is it only insulting if I dare express the opinions of an atheist?
    Without admitting the possiblity that you are wrong, that is, the option that people really do have a relationship with God is viable, it is. Being an atheist is not insulting. Is my being a follow of Jesus insulting? What is the difference?
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen T-B View Post
    Over in the Bible Discussion forum (Errors in the Bible Bother Me thread) this was posted: As an atheist, I am bound to conclude that anyone claiming to have a personal relationship with God, which includes being in communication with him, is either deluded or lying.

    I think that lying in this context and on these forums is extremely unlikely.

    So is my being an atheist- in itself - an insult to those like RG?
    No, only your expression of it.

    Or is it only insulting if I dare express the opinions of an atheist?
    Only if you express it in an insulting manner. To claim that someone must be delusional is insulting.

    I have no problem with atheists. I do have a problem with being told I am deluded.

    I also have a problem being told that I cannot have genuine evidence (of God.)

    You have a right to assume that God does not exist and behave accordingly but, IMO you do not have a right to insult or deride those who think otherwise.

    Richard Gillett
    I am an unworthy servant. But someone had to stand up and be counted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen T-B View Post
    Over in the Bible Discussion forum (Errors in the Bible Bother Me thread) this was posted....
    Just FYI, admin has ruled that it is against the rules of the board to start a thread like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by admin View Post
    Mattathias - I would consider your actions as "trolling". Discuss the topics without referring to the member. The member can join the conversations if they wish.

    Our over riding guideline is: Focus and debate on the ideas, not the individual member.
    I disagree, but there it is.
    The hound of Jewish monotheism.

    "For us there is one God. He is the Father." (I Corinthians 8:6)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen T-B View Post
    Over in the Bible Discussion forum (Errors in the Bible Bother Me thread) this was posted: As an atheist, I am bound to conclude that anyone claiming to have a personal relationship with God, which includes being in communication with him, is either deluded or lying.

    I think that lying in this context and on these forums is extremely unlikely.

    So is my being an atheist- in itself - an insult to those like RG?
    Or is it only insulting if I dare express the opinions of an atheist?
    It is only insulting if those with special powers can determine your intent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Gillett View Post
    No, only your expression of it.
    So how is it possible for an atheist to express the conclusion that someone claiming to be in communication with God is deluded without saying it?

    To claim that someone must be delusional is insulting.
    That's my point: as an atheist I can either say it's delusional or that it is a lie but I cannot say "Yes, it is possible that you are in communication with God."
    An agnostic might say that.
    I am not agnostic.

    In the normal course of events, I don't seek out people who say they are in communication with God and tell them they're delusional; I don't hang around outside church doors of a Sunday and waylay members of the congregation to tell them God is a figment of their own or other people's imagination. I don't tell my brother and sister and my other relatives who believe in God that they're delusional.

    But on an internet discussion site which permits anyone to air his/her opinions, then I have no such inhibitions.

    I don't see believers being particularly inclined to spare me their opinion that, as an atheist, I'm destined for hell.
    How may times have I been told "Wait until you are face to face with God" or words to that effect?

    If I were to meet one of these people socially and the conversation turned to religion, is it likely that that's what I'd be told when it turns out I'm an atheist?

    So - in your opinion, what's more offensive: to be told that you're going to hell, or that you are delusional?

    I also have a problem being told that I cannot have genuine evidence (of God.)
    So what would you expect an atheist to say in an on-line discussion?
    "True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it."Karl K. Popper

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen T-B View Post
    So how is it possible for an atheist to express the conclusion that someone claiming to be in communication with God is deluded without saying it?
    You don't say it.


    That's my point: as an atheist I can either say it's delusional or that it is a lie but I cannot say "Yes, it is possible that you are in communication with God."
    You do not have to insist on delusion

    An agnostic might say that.
    I am not agnostic.
    But you do not have to be rude either


    In the normal course of events, I don't seek out people who say they are in communication with God and tell them they're delusional; I don't hang around outside church doors of a Sunday and waylay members of the congregation to tell them God is a figment of their own or other people's imagination. I don't tell my brother and sister and my other relatives who believe in God that they're delusional.
    I wonder why.


    But on an internet discussion site which permits anyone to air his/her opinions, then I have no such inhibitions.
    And?

    Does that make you correct and polite?


    I don't see believers being particularly inclined to spare me their opinion that, as an atheist, I'm destined for hell.
    I have never said that to you

    How may times have I been told "Wait until you are face to face with God" or words to that effect?
    I have never said that either


    If I were to meet one of these people socially and the conversation turned to religion, is it likely that that's what I'd be told when it turns out I'm an atheist?
    That is not the point. Two wrongs do not make a right. I do not condone the blanket damnation of non-Christians and would consider it rude to do so



    So - in your opinion, what's more offensive: to be told that you're going to hell, or that you are delusional?
    They are equally offensive. I do not condone either.

    And that is my point. I am polite to you and would appreciate you being polite to me. I have never claimed superiority, nor that you are wrong, nor any of the things you seem to think christians always claim. But I do claim to have a genuine relationship with God... and it is real, not a delusion. To be called delusional is offensive. I am sure that you would not appreciate it. The notion of

    Do unto others as you would have them do to you
    Is universal, not just Christian.

    So what would you expect an atheist to say in an on-line discussion?
    I would expect them to say what they believe (or don't believe) but not to ridicule, or insult or deride what others believe.

    You can explain why you beleive ( or do not beleive) what you do without dismissing or rejecting out of hand the experiences of others. You have no right to claim that someone is delusional or lying.

    Richard Gillett
    I am an unworthy servant. But someone had to stand up and be counted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Gillett View Post
    You can explain why you beleive ( or do not beleive) what you do without dismissing or rejecting out of hand the experiences of others. You have no right to claim that someone is delusional or lying.

    Richard Gillett
    Well than, person A says "I am Napoleon", person B says "Allah commands me to kill you", person C says "God talks to me every night" and person D says "Jesus loves me".

    Which of these are delusional and how do you know?

    I say all of them are delusional.

    Roger
    It is not God that kills the children, not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs.
    It's us. Only us. - Rorschach

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogerh View Post
    Well than, person A says "I am Napoleon", person B says "Allah commands me to kill you", person C says "God talks to me every night" and person D says "Jesus loves me".

    Which of these are delusional and how do you know?

    I say all of them are delusional.

    Roger
    You can say to yourself what you like.

    A person can be named Napoleon.

    A person can beleive that Allah caommanded them to kill, but that does not make them delusional, only wrong (probably)

    You are fixated with your experiences with your family, and understandably so, but you still have never asked them how God spoke to them... otherwise you might not be so emphatic. God can speak through Scripture for instance. Which is plain reading and nothing outrageous at all.

    The bible says that Jesus loves us... that is not delusion, it is accepting the words of the bible.

    Can't you see that you are blanket judging when there is more than one explanation for any statement? And it is not necesarily "delusion" as such?

    Why must you justify your insults?

    Do you think you have the right to insult others and for them not to take offence at it?

    Does being an atheist entitle you to ridicule faith? Is ridicule something you think is good and right? What does it prove?

    Richard Gillett
    I am an unworthy servant. But someone had to stand up and be counted.

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