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Thread: The Errors in the Bible Bother Me.

  1. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Kindergarten stuff.
    And you have the cojones to accuse me of ad hominem?

    But in all that, you still didn't answer my question. So I'll try again.

    What comprises Jesus' teachings?

    Yehu
    "Everybody thinks they're doing the right thing." - Gordon Anke
    (One of wisest men I've known. RIP 3/5/17)

    Current ignore list: JimD, smoky, De Maria


  2. #232
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    I will address this:
    Quote Originally Posted by smoky View Post
    ............
    Case in point regarding personal interpretation of prophetic riddles:

    Jesus said that he would return "soon."


    Jewish scoffers during apostolic times mocked the fact that Jesus did not return "soon."

    You agree with the scoffers that Jesus did not return "soon," instead of agreeing with the apostle Peter. . .and you even say
    Jesus gave a false prophecy.

    Yet God says false prophecies come only from false prophets, so according to God, you make Jesus to be a false prophet. . .which you deny, in a disagreement with God.

    However, Peter addresses the scoffers and you by pointing out their and your misunderstanding of "soon."
    "Soon" according to whom/what. . .God and eternity. . .or man and time?

    Peter says it will be "soon" according to God and eternity, where a thousand years on earth are like a day in eternity, and a day in eternity is like a thousand years on earth (2Pe 3:8).

    Jesus is not slow in keeping his promise (2Pe 3:9). . .his coming will be "soon" in terms of the realm from which he came and to which he returned.
    I think you're confusing me with Philip. He is the one who has a problem with God's usage of the word "soon" or "shortly", not me.

  3. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yehushuan View Post
    So on the one hand you say you believe the Bible, and yet on the other hand have just stated that you don't.
    No. I believe parts of the Bible are to be taken literally, and some parts figuratively.

    (Job 2:6-7 KJV) And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

    Just to clarify... you DON'T believe that what is stated in the above verse happened. (A yes or no would be greatly appreciated by all.)
    I believe that Satan literally smote Job. I do not believe God literally granted permission to Satan to do it.

    So... given your PERSONAL interpretation that such was poetic or ... hmmm... literary and or figurative in nature, then why in God's name wouldn't one also believe such to be true of this?

    (Luk 22:44 KJV) And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
    There is evidence that vv43-44 are not authentic. But if they are, Jesus did not literally sweat blood.

    Is it truly impossible for you to see that YOU shroom are picking and choosing (no matter the criteria) what is and is not literary and figurative? And since YOU are doing so, then how is it that YOU are not making up your own God?
    I believe the Bible was written with some parts literal and some parts figurative. We need to determine which is which. If we do that properly, we will understand the Bible.

    Youi mean God Himself was unable to provide inspired enlightenment so that these people WOULD know more about the devil in the OT? Or will you play the inscrutable card? Ohh... God had his reasons that are unknowable to mere mortals.
    No, He was certainly able. But He did not do it. You inserted this before my explaination.

    Fair enough. At least such is internally consistent with your definitional framework. Even though it does contradict the NT itself.
    Of course parts of the NT contradict the OT. In the OT, God sends evil spirits to torment people. In the NT, we learn it was Satan.

    (Were the believers in Acts 19 Christians before Paul arrived? )
    Yes, but they were ignorant of what they had: the gift of holy spirit. Just like most Christians are today. Most Christians think the gift of holy spirit is "the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity". It's not. Most Christians think the manifestations of holy spirit are gifts. They're not. They are manifestations of the gift.

  4. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by smoky View Post
    Non-responsive. . .your interpretations of prophetic riddles enjoy no more certainty than mine.

    And keeping in mind, I interpret the first resurrection (Rev 20:4-6) to be the resurrection of the born again from spiritual death to eternal life at their re-birth and faith (if it is not the resurrection of Mt 27:52),

    where the immortal souls/spirits of those already beheaded for Jesus are reigning with Jesus (Rev 20:4-6) in heaven now (Eph 2:6),

    during the symbolic 1000 years (Rev 20:2-6) which is the church age

    when Satan is bound (2Pe 2:4; Ju 6; Lk 10:18-19; Rev 20:2-3).

    (I also note in the only passage in all of Scripture dealing with a millennial reign, there is no mention of Jews, Israel, Palestine, land or Jerusalem.)

    I interpret the second resurrection to be the general resurrection at the end of time,
    the first death to be physical death of the body, while
    the second death is eternal separation from God.

    Case in point regarding personal interpretation of prophetic riddles:

    Jesus said that he would return "soon."


    Jewish scoffers during apostolic times mocked the fact that Jesus did not return "soon."

    You agree with the scoffers that Jesus did not return "soon," instead of agreeing with the apostle Peter. . .and you even say
    Jesus gave a false prophecy.

    Yet God says false prophecies come only from false prophets, so according to God, you make Jesus to be a false prophet. . .which you deny, in a disagreement with God.

    However, Peter addresses the scoffers and you by pointing out their and your misunderstanding of "soon."
    "Soon" according to whom/what. . .God and eternity. . .or man and time?

    Peter says it will be "soon" according to God and eternity, where a thousand years on earth are like a day in eternity, and a day in eternity is like a thousand years on earth (2Pe 3:8).

    Jesus is not slow in keeping his promise (2Pe 3:9). . .his coming will be "soon" in terms of the realm from which he came and to which he returned.
    Face it, smoky. We will not agree on several major biblical doctrines in this life.
    Well, firstly, that is an overreach.
    Personal interpretation of unfulfilled prophetic riddles, by definition, cannot be a "major Biblical doctrine," because those personal interpretations are not certain.
    There is only one way to measure the accuracy of anyone's personal interpretation of an unfulfilled prophetic riddle--does it agree with the NT?
    Your personal interpretations of such riddles do not, they contradict much NT apostolic authoritative didactics.

    So any demonstration based in your personal interpretation of unfulfilled prophetic riddles--which interpretation is no more certain than mine, is useless as a counter demonstration.

    And sorry you don't like statements deliberately made in the form of concise principles. . .to keep us on the bone of the matter. . . which evidently does not work for you.
    Last edited by smoky; 05-19-2017 at 04:11 PM.

  5. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    I will address this:

    I think you're confusing me with Philip. He is the one who has a problem with God's usage of the word "soon" or "shortly", not me.
    You do not think Jesus gave a false prophecy when he said he would return "soon"?

    That is what I am referring to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smoky View Post
    Well, firstly, that is an overreach.
    Personal interpretation of unfulfilled prophetic riddles, by definition, cannot be a "major Biblical doctrine," because those personal interpretations are not certain.
    There is only one way to measure the accuracy of anyone's personal interpretation of an unfulfilled prophetic riddle--does it agree with the NT?
    Your personal interpretations of such riddles do not, they contradict much NT apostolic authoritative didactics.
    We disagree. They may disagree with YOUR INTERPRETATION of "NT apostolic authoritative didactics", but they do not disagree with the NT.

    So any demonstration based in your personal interpretation of unfulfilled prophetic riddles--which interpretation is no more certain than mine, is useless as a counter demonstration.
    I fully believe that what I presented fits with scripture.

    And sorry you don't like statements deliberately made in the form of concise principles. . .to keep us on the bone of the matter. . . which evidently does not work for you.
    No, the problem continues to be that you insist that your and ONLY your understanding of the Bible is correct. Anyone who disagrees is an heretic, has a poor hermaneutic, and is against "NT apostolic authoritative didactics".

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    Quote Originally Posted by smoky View Post
    You do not think Jesus gave a false prophecy when he said he would return "soon"?

    That is what I am referring to.
    No. There is no problem with the word "soon". There are several OT prophesies what state the day of the Lord was coming "soon", and it's still not here. Paul thought he would live to see the return of Christ (the rapture) (1 Cor 15:52 "we shall be changed"; 1 Thes 4:15, 17 "we which are alive"). John said things would "shortly come to pass" (Rev 1:1), and they haven't yet. Jesus said he will come quickly (Rev 22:7), he has not come yet. But he will.

    Since during his earthly ministry Jesus Christ did not know God's secret, he said things like this:

    Mat 16:28) Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

    Luke 9:27) But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

    Jesus believed that some of the people standing there with him would make it alive through the soon-coming trib, and make it into the kingdom.

    And the following was said right AFTER Matt 24:27-31:

    Matt 24:34) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

    Those things did not happen. Instead, God intervened with this administration of grace, His secret.

    I posted more on it here: http://forum.bible-discussion.com/sh...43#post1171343

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    The ones in the bible smoky. That's why I made the thread. I noticed in Judy's thread that none of you would bother to admit that the bible has errors, and that actually bothered me even more than the actual errors of the bible. Well, maybe not....IDK, but it does bother me because it shows that many of you who say you believe in God don't actually value truth.
    I think you mean "contradictions" not errors. There also many lies in the Puzzlebook aka Bible.

    These contradictions helped to open up the "truth" to me. Reading AND studying this book makes it much more FUN and INTERESTING.

    Hope you have some real FUN. The TRUE words of Jesus are wonderful.

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    Perhaps you have studdied too hard and too deeply?
    You really posted that piece of bs?
    Study just leads to more questions and a more detailed image
    I guess by that remark we should just listen to the damned robed liars.
    Because they can fulfill the bill- MARK 16,17+18 and two others
    when all I have found them doing is swilling to us their garbage.
    That makes us pigs. Are we pigs?
    pax

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yehushuan View Post
    Philip,

    Just trying to clarify? What do you mean by errors? Scribal mistakes when hand copying a manuscript? Translator mistakes that introduce unintended meanings when the initial language could never have conveyed such? Misunderstandings when idiots read the exact same text and yet arrive at contradictory conclusions (i.e. bad exegesis from the morons)? Or a collection of texts such as the Bible (or even just the New Testament) which clearly present conflicting doctrines when correctly understood in the original language without any hint of scribal mistakes?

    Would you agree with some posters that certain kinds of errors don't matter? While others do? One wonders where to draw the line. Perhaps that's the issue.

    Yehu
    I think all of the above and some not included brother. Yes, I do agree with some posters that Ahaziah being twelve or twenty two when he became king doesn't change the fact that Jesus loves me (if he really does).

    At this point, i'm not convinced the conversation is worth continuing from my end, because I end up criticizing something that some good people (and some not so good) cherish.

    I started the thread for a couple reasons....one I was a tad tipsy, and two, I was offended by people who can't be honest, or embrace truth. The claim that the bible is without errors is demonstratively false... and yet some people refuse to accept this as fact - like De Maria as one example.
    For when nothing can be as it is, then whatever is turns into nothing. Yehushuan

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Philip For This Useful Post:

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