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Thread: The Errors in the Bible Bother Me.

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndpillar View Post
    Dear dot,
    If one does not know what the teachings of Yeshua are, how is one to "clarify precisely what they are", and how does one know they would want to follow that teaching, if they are uncertain what it actually is? If it is so precise, then instead of your subjective definition, can you give an objective answer to as what that teaching was? P2 redefines "sin", and you redefine the everything else. As for having a father, 1 John 3:8 says it best, 'the one who practices sin is of the devil".
    Do you not know what the teachings of JEsus are? This need to be either as broad as Jesus made it, love God with all your being and love our neighbor as yourself, or specific as the instructions he gave to individuals. Is that what you want as an answer?
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    Are you interested in answers, Philip? Or are you more interested in promoting that the Bible contains errors? It's true that if the Bible contains errors, everyone is free to make up their own version of God, which seems to be the path you are on...
    And yet, shroom, you seem to be more interested in promoting a fundamental doctrine that Jesus' teaching contained errors itself (or at least one). And if Jesus could be in error, then how are you not making up your own version of God? In selecting and cementing the canon, the Catholics certainly made up their own version of God.

    Yehushuan
    "Everybody thinks they're doing the right thing." - Gordon Anke
    (One of wisest men I've known.)

    Current ignore list: JimD, De Maria, Agape, smoky


  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    With regards to copyist errors and some additions to the texts, yes, it is true.
    Finally.

    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    But you know that when I say "Bible", I mean the words as they were originally given to the men who wrote them. At least you should know this...

    {and} I am interested in getting to the truth of what the Bible (see above) says.
    So you're "interested in getting to the truth of what the Bible" ("the words as they were originally given to the men who wrote them"). But yet you refuse to accept that you don't have ANY of those words "as they were originally given to the men who wrote them."

    In the name of sanity, just how can you "get to the truth" of something you don't have?

    I think this is the kind of cognitive dissonance that seems to be driving Philip crazy.

    Yehushuan
    "Everybody thinks they're doing the right thing." - Gordon Anke
    (One of wisest men I've known.)

    Current ignore list: JimD, De Maria, Agape, smoky


  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yehushuan View Post
    And yet, shroom, you seem to be more interested in promoting a fundamental doctrine that Jesus' teaching contained errors itself (or at least one). And if Jesus could be in error, then how are you not making up your own version of God? In selecting and cementing the canon, the Catholics certainly made up their own version of God.

    Yehushuan
    Because I believe the writings of Paul are God-breathed. I believe Paul when he wrote that a dispensation of the gospel was committed to him, and that it was not revealed beforehand.

    Since you do not believe the Bible (as originally given) is the Word of God, and since you doubt many of the things Paul wrote, even at times calling Paul's character into question, we will not agree on things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yehushuan View Post
    With regards to copyist errors and some additions to the texts, yes, it is true.
    Finally.
    I have never believed nor stated otherwise.

    So you're "interested in getting to the truth of what the Bible" ("the words as they were originally given to the men who wrote them"). But yet you refuse to accept that you don't have ANY of those words "as they were originally given to the men who wrote them."
    Yes, we do not have any original autographs.

    In the name of sanity, just how can you "get to the truth" of something you don't have?
    It takes work.

    I think this is the kind of cognitive dissonance that seems to be driving Philip crazy.
    Philip is driving himself crazy because he has given up believing the Bible is the word of God and trying to understand how it fits together. He has abandoned it in favor of making up his own version of God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    I believe you're the one that doesn't understand them, claiming God had a "revealed will" and a "secret will" that totally contradict each other.
    Wait. What???

    shroom, you claim this same thing. That God had a secret will he didn't reveal to Jesus, causing Jesus to give (as you said) a "wrong prophecy", then later revealing this secret will to Paul.

    And yes, Jesus' teaching on how to be forgiven (as taught in the Sermon on the Mount and the Sermon on the Plain) totally contradicted what Paul presented as God's "revealed will" for salvation and forgiveness based upon the butchery of human sacrifice.

    Oh the iron(y) in the pot and kettle.



    (We need a pot and kettle smiley)
    "Everybody thinks they're doing the right thing." - Gordon Anke
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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    If God "grants permission" to Satan to kill someone, God is culpable.
    And would this include the torture that Satan was granted permission to inflict on Job? Is God then not culpable for that?

    (It's a valid and honest question, shroom.)
    "Everybody thinks they're doing the right thing." - Gordon Anke
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    Current ignore list: JimD, De Maria, Agape, smoky


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    Philip,

    Just trying to clarify? What do you mean by errors? Scribal mistakes when hand copying a manuscript? Translator mistakes that introduce unintended meanings when the initial language could never have conveyed such? Misunderstandings when idiots read the exact same text and yet arrive at contradictory conclusions (i.e. bad exegesis from the morons)? Or a collection of texts such as the Bible (or even just the New Testament) which clearly present conflicting doctrines when correctly understood in the original language without any hint of scribal mistakes?

    Would you agree with some posters that certain kinds of errors don't matter? While others do? One wonders where to draw the line. Perhaps that's the issue.

    Yehu
    "Everybody thinks they're doing the right thing." - Gordon Anke
    (One of wisest men I've known.)

    Current ignore list: JimD, De Maria, Agape, smoky


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  10. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yehushuan View Post
    And would this include the torture that Satan was granted permission to inflict on Job? Is God then not culpable for that?
    If I thought that were literally true, then yes, God would be culpable.

    (It's a valid and honest question, shroom.)
    I believe that Job 1 and 2 were written according to the understanding of the time: that God is "sovereign", that He was the one ultimately responsible for good and evil, that Satan could do nothing without God's permission.

    I do not believe that God literally "granted permission" to Satan to inflict Job, to kill his family, etc. God is love, He is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.

    There is very little understanding of Satan in the OT. In the OT, pretty much everything, good or evil, is accredited to God. An "evil spirit from Yahweh" troubled Saul (1 Sam 16:14). Elijah thought God was responsible for the death of the woman's son (1 Ki 17:20). There are many examples. Not much was known about the devil in the OT, and the scriptures were written accordingly. I believe that part of the reason the OT is written this way is that people were not equipped to handle the fact that they were in reality battling a powerful invisible enemy who was in control of the world they were living in. Very few people had holy spirit. There are no records in the OT of people casting out demons. There are no records revealing that people were wrestling against "principalities, powers, spiritual wickedness from on high". There are no records stating that the devil is in control of the world. These things are in the NT, not the OT. Since Pentecost, EVERY Christian has the gift of holy spirit, and is better equipped to deal with the enemy (assuming they know what they have..).

    Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. He revealed the goodness of God and the wickedness of Satan, and the reality that we are in the middle of a spiritual war. People are oppressed by the devil, not God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Some believe in a God who is not the one in the Bible as they reject the Bible and make up what they like. It is very dangerous.
    I think it is more dangerous to think this way. Believing that such is dangerous is what compels people to create things like the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (i.e. The Inquisition).
    "Everybody thinks they're doing the right thing." - Gordon Anke
    (One of wisest men I've known.)

    Current ignore list: JimD, De Maria, Agape, smoky


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