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Thread: Asking JWs to describe the "a god" they insist is there

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    It is not me not acknowleding them as judges. They are not judges because no one in the text calls them judges. Show me where judges are address as gods in the Bible. If this is as common as you claim, it ought not to be difficult.
    Not what i said. No where does the author say he is addressing judges. No where. Move on.
    The point in question is the fact they are called gods. Without question they are called gods. Without question they judge others according to the context of verse 2.
    Dottie, who do you believe Ps 82 is speaking of who are called gods?
    Agape,
    TBax

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    You read that from an apostate. That is a lie that you chose to believe.
    Wasn't an apostate. Was an early JW GB approved publication.
    I claim that is totally incorrect. So you need to produce that reference.
    Agape,
    TBax

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TBax
    No, you ask if there were any others called gods. You specifically asked in your OP "Many gods. So is Jesus simply another god? Are there more out there?"
    Among other questions. Did you answer these?
    Absolutely. That is what Ps 82 was about.

    That is what post #13 and #23 were about. How is it you do not understand that?

    Quote Originally Posted by TBax View Post
    Dottie, very simply, do you believe the Bible refers to Israel's judges and kings as gods? Ps 82:6 Elohim
    Do you understand that the angels are referred to by the Hebrew word "Elohim" which means gods? Ps 8:5 Elohim
    Dottie, do you deny that in God's word the Bible, Jesus verified that the judges were called gods, by God Himself, and that those words cannot be nullified? John 10:34,35 Theos
    Agape,
    TBax

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    Quote Originally Posted by jig View Post
    The end result is, the Son "will be subject to His Father." Problem is, the Son "is already subject to His Father." Always has been. What does Paul mean?
    There is mutual obedience and submission.
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    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

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    Quote Originally Posted by TBax View Post
    The point in question is the fact they are called gods.
    Who they? Not Judges. Not kings. False gods (demons?) Likely. But those whom you claimed are called gods are not. And in fact, only in Ps 82 is anyone besides GOD called GOD. One obscure chapter to stake a whole denial of his diety upon ignoring the obvious statements that are there. No one called Jesus "a god" not to his face and not otherwise.
    Without question they are called gods. Without question they judge others according to the context of verse 2.
    Dottie, who do you believe Ps 82 is speaking of who are called gods?
    You cannot give up Psalm 82 but have had to downgrade to "they" instead of "judges." Well, that is honest of you and you have come up in my estimation. There is some honesty at work. So the myterious "they" are called gods in exactly one Psalm in the whole of the millenia long written pages.

    Now that we have someone cast grave doubt on judges being donned "gods" and anyone else for that matter in normal Jewish life, do I assume that since you think Jesus is a god, do you think all men are gods and you are a god? Is that a safe conclusion? Or do you think Jesus was a god like the angels are in that category? Just wondering.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBax View Post
    I claim that is totally incorrect. So you need to produce that reference.
    Will take some time and is not pertinent to our discussion. If JWs are not allowed to lie, how come you said that judges are called "gods" in the Bible and have no scripture that does so? I mean, I doubt you were lying. I think you believed the JW teaching without question, not lying. But they lied to you. Judges are not called "gods" in the Bible. Well, this is not the first time the GB has been caught telling untruths.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBax View Post
    Absolutely. That is what Ps 82 was about.
    Are you a god? What makes you different than Jesus?
    That is what post #13 and #23 were about. How is it you do not understand that?
    The #13 says things that have been shown to be untrue. Men are not called gods in the Bible. Psalm 82 is the only reference and it might be so but these are not those in authority. They are simple the "they" you mentioned above. No kings or judges or anyone over anyone. So the explanation you gave does not match scripture at all. Not anywhere.

    Number 23 is pretty the same. Full of claims that are not true. Angels are not calls "gods" by God. Angels are often called messengers and the same word is used for human messenegers. What you want to do is this.

    Jesus was just a man or a god.
    But men are called gods
    Angels are called gods.
    But God is called god too.
    Demons are also called gods.

    I want to ask is there any creatures besides bugs, birds and animals that are not called gods? If everyone is a god, no one is a god. (Might need to think about that one.) All of this to render Jesus not the Son of God.

    You know, you probably did not think about the Cor scripture much but used it from a JW site. What you probably did not see and I just saw it was this:

    First the verse, "yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live."

    All things came through ...one God and all things came through Jesus Christ.
    This makes Jesus Christ God. One God, two presentations. Since all things came through God and all things came through Jesus the Christ, Jesus the Christ is God.

    Bet you did not see that coming.
    Last edited by Dottie; 05-19-2017 at 08:55 AM.
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    Theocaratic Warfare was encouraged when one was supposedly faced with the "foes" of Jehovah.

    "Today God’s servants are engaged in a warfare, a spiritual, theocratic warfare, a warfare ordered by God against wicked spirit forces and against false teachings. God’s servants are sent forth as sheep among wolves and therefore need to exercise the extreme caution of serpents so as to protect properly the interests of God’s kingdom committed to them. At all times they must be very careful not to divulge any information to the enemy that he could use to hamper the preaching work." Watchtower 1957 May 1 p.286

    "We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive. ... As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies." Watchtower 1960 Jun 1 pp.351-352:

    "From time to time letters are received asking whether a certain circumstance would justify making an exception to the Christian’s obligation to tell the truth. In reply to these the following is given: God’s Word commands: “Speak truth each of you with his neighbor.” ...
    There is one exception, however, that the Christian must ever bear in mind. As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God’s foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God’s cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God’s enemies. A Scriptural example of this is that of Rahab the harlot. She hid the Israelite spies because of her faith in their God Jehovah. This she did both by her actions and by her lips. That she had Jehovah’s approval in doing so is seen from James’ commendation of her faith." Watchtower 1960 Jun 1 pp.351,352 Questions From Readers

    "Jehovah had the land “vomit” those depraved humans out of their territory, using theocratic warfare to have it done. (Leviticus 18:1-30; Deuteronomy 7:1-6, 24) This justifies the spiritual warfare of the Christian today." Watchtower 1986 Sep 1 p.18

    "Of course, being truthful does not mean that we are obligated to divulge all information to anyone who asks it of us. Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw your pearls before swine, that they may never ... turn around and rip you open, warned Jesus, at Matthew 7:6. For example, individuals with wicked intent may have no right to know certain things. Christians understand that they are living in a hostile world. Thus, Jesus advised his disciples to be cautious as serpents while remaining innocent as doves. ( Matthew 10:16; John 15:19) Jesus did not always disclose the full truth, especially when revealing all the facts could have brought unnecessary harm to himself or his disciples. Still, even at such times, he did not lie. Instead, he chose either to say nothing or to divert the conversation in another direction." Awake! 2000 Feb 8 p.21

    A lie is a false statement made by one to another one who is entitled to hear and to know the truth, and which false statement tends to work injury to the other. A false statement made for the purpose of deceiving and working injury to another is a deliberate and malicious lie. (Riches, Rutherford, 1936, p. 177)

    So the real question is, Who are the "enemies" of Jehovah? According to JWs, it would be anyone outside of the org. but especially anyone in "Christendom."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Who they? Not Judges. Not kings. False gods (demons?) Likely. But those whom you claimed are called gods are not. And in fact, only in Ps 82 is anyone besides GOD called GOD. One obscure chapter to stake a whole denial of his diety upon ignoring the obvious statements that are there. No one called Jesus "a god" not to his face and not otherwise.
    You cannot give up Psalm 82 but have had to downgrade to "they" instead of "judges." Well, that is honest of you and you have come up in my estimation. There is some honesty at work. So the myterious "they" are called gods in exactly one Psalm in the whole of the millenia long written pages.

    Now that we have someone cast grave doubt on judges being donned "gods" and anyone else for that matter in normal Jewish life, do I assume that since you think Jesus is a god, do you think all men are gods and you are a god? Is that a safe conclusion? Or do you think Jesus was a god like the angels are in that category? Just wondering.
    Dottie, you are purposely missing the point by focusing on your red herring. You know very well these ones are called gods. But you are pretending that since your refusal to accept the context that these are "judges", that you do not know who they are, thus there is no one called gods. That is not how proper reasoning works.

    It is a false argument, but typical of those who refuse the truth. Miss the point to focus on something other then what is pertinant to the discussion.
    Agape,
    TBax

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Will take some time and is not pertinent to our discussion. If JWs are not allowed to lie, how come you said that judges are called "gods" in the Bible and have no scripture that does so? I mean, I doubt you were lying. I think you believed the JW teaching without question, not lying. But they lied to you. Judges are not called "gods" in the Bible. Well, this is not the first time the GB has been caught telling untruths.
    I didn't lie about the judges. You simply do not accept what I said, pretending it nullifies what Ps 82:6.
    If it wasn't the judges, then who were they? You indicated you do not know. Well read the context. If you cannot figure it out, then you have no business trying to nullify what you do not understand.
    Agape,
    TBax

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