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Thread: Do all believers inherit the Kingdom of Heaven?

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    And I thought OSAS gave a license to sin.
    Yeah, you thought wrong. It doesn't.
    Sure it does. If one wants to sin, it is a good theology to have. Little is lost and none of it here and now.
    MUCH can be lost. While there surely can be consequences for sin here and now, there absolutely will be consequences for sin on judgment day.

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    [QUOTE=shroom;1325702]MUCH can be lost. While there surely can be consequences for sin here and now, there absolutely will be consequences for sin on judgment day.[/QUOTE]

    Dear shroom,
    What are the "consequences for sin on judgment day"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    That's not true. The Christian new birth was not available until the day of Pentecost.
    Then why did Jesus tell Nicodemus he needed to be born again to know who Jesus is? Peter knew who Jesus was because he was born again.

    Being born again as described to Nicodemus in John 3... was telling Nicodemus that he needed to become regenerate by the doing of the Holy Spirit. OT saints were body, soul, and human spirit. The Church receives an additional gift... We are body, soul, human spirit... AND... the indwelling Holy Spirit. There was no indwelling Holy Spirit in the OT. OT saints received what is referred to as "enduement."
    The Holy Spirit would 'come upon Samson." And the Holy Spirit would leave. With us? The Holy Spirit will never leave us not forsake us. EVEN if we are clods and constantly grieve and quench the Spirit.

    Sorry that you do not understand this truth. Maybe you will, though. The Holy Spirit empowered only a very select few in the OT. Today all who are born again during the Church age receive the "gift" of the Holy Spirit to live in us. In believers just like the Spirit used to live in the Tabernacle, and later the Temple's Holy of Holies.

    The psalmist prayed that God not remove His Spirit from him. We have been sealed by the Spirit. We have a different modus operandi from the OT saints. They needed the Law to restrain them because they did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit to restrain them from within. That is why those who walk in the Spirit are not under Law.



    OT believers were not born again. While it's true they were saved by faith, their faith had to be demonstrated by keeping the law.
    The Law was the opportunity to declare their faith. Yet, totally apostate King Saul died the sin onto death. Samuel told him the day before he died in battle, that Saul and his sons will be with Samuel when they died. Saved!
    God has two dwellings:
    one in heaven, and the other
    in a meek and thankful heart.
    Izaak Walton
    (1593-1683)




  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneZ View Post
    Then why did Jesus tell Nicodemus he needed to be born again to know who Jesus is?
    In John 3, Jesus was not speaking of the Christian new birth.

    Peter knew who Jesus was because he was born again.
    Peter was not born again until the day of Pentecost. Nobody was.

    Being born again as described to Nicodemus in John 3... was telling Nicodemus that he needed to become regenerate by the doing of the Holy Spirit. OT saints were body, soul, and human spirit. The Church receives an additional gift... We are body, soul, human spirit... AND... the indwelling Holy Spirit.
    It was not possible to become regenerate before Pentecost. And there is no "human spirit" other than a generic use of the term. "His spirit was low", etc.

    There was no indwelling Holy Spirit in the OT. OT saints received what is referred to as "enduement."
    The Holy Spirit would 'come upon Samson." And the Holy Spirit would leave. With us? The Holy Spirit will never leave us not forsake us. EVEN if we are clods and constantly grieve and quench the Spirit.
    Pretty much agree, Gene.

    Sorry that you do not understand this truth. Maybe you will, though. The Holy Spirit empowered only a very select few in the OT. Today all who are born again during the Church age receive the "gift" of the Holy Spirit to live in us. In believers just like the Spirit used to live in the Tabernacle, and later the Temple's Holy of Holies.
    I understand the gift of holy spirit.

    The psalmist prayed that God not remove His Spirit from him. We have been sealed by the Spirit. We have a different modus operandi from the OT saints. They needed the Law to restrain them because they did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit to restrain them from within. That is why those who walk in the Spirit are not under Law.
    Again, generally agree.

    The Law was the opportunity to declare their faith.
    Scripture clearly states:

    Deut 6:
    25) And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

    They were required to prove their faith by trying to keep the law.

    Yet, totally apostate King Saul died the sin onto death.
    He died because of his sins.

    Samuel told him the day before he died in battle
    It wasn't Samuel. Samuel had died, and was dead. The witch of Endor summoned a familiar spirit, a demon that impersonated Samuel. It was a seance. God would not prematurely raise Samuel from the dead to have him participate in a seance.

    that Saul and his sons will be with Samuel when they died. Saved!
    When the demon said "you will be with me", he was not referring to being saved, he was referring to where Samuel, whom he was impersonating, was: dead and in the grave.

    Neither Samuel nor Saul are alive. Both are dead. While Samuel will no doubt participate in the resurrection of the just, Saul's fate remains to be seen, but it doesn't look good. And neither Samuel nor Saul were born again. It simply was not available.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    If you obeyed God, everyone reading your posts would know it.
    Hardly.
    How many posers who don't castigate sinners make millions of dollars?
    People are drawn by their itchy ears.
    I am happy to promote the wishes of God instead of my own.

    If you obeyed God everyone watching you would know it.
    If that were true, how did Jeffery Dahmer stay free for so long?
    You can't tell a book by its cover.

    As it is, if I ask others who live and work with you if you are sinless, you deny that they should see anything close to sinless.
    They are supposed to have nothing to say about what they see because, we can assume, they see nothing sinless in your life.
    I think you should edit that first sentence.
    It made no sense.
    You turned down the chance to ask them yourself, remember?

    Your posts are not the kind that those free of sin write.
    My writings must be different from all the other obedient to God writers you peruse.
    How about listing their names?
    One of their names?

    BTW, you have yet to post that list of sins you allege I committed.
    "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." (Ja 5:20)

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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    MUCH can be lost. While there surely can be consequences for sin here and now, there absolutely will be consequences for sin on judgment day.
    What? I have asked you this before. What exactly is lost on judgement day? What do you tell others they have to lose in the sweet by and by for sinning? What do you tell them they have to lose here and now?
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    Hardly.
    How many posers who don't castigate sinners make millions of dollars?
    People are drawn by their itchy ears.
    I am happy to promote the wishes of God instead of my own.
    What you have done is point to those who do not do the will of God and fool people into giving their money. I have not heard any of them claim they were doing the will of God, btw. No one doubts this. We are not talking to them. We are talking to you and we who are reading. What I said is if you were doing the will of God we who are reading this would know it. That is all I said. You talking about TV evangelists has nothing to do with this discussion. I know you are not sinless because you have sinned here in things you wrote. That is the point. Throwing chaff in as to what others do has no bearing on that fact.

    I had not noticed you promoting the wishes of God. It seems very clear that you promote the wishes of you. You tell us all how sinless you are. That is certainly your wishes. If you were promoting the wishes of God, you would talk less about your own righteousness and be interested in others. Jesus NEVER talked about his own sin free state. Never. You refuse to go and do likewise.
    If that were true, how did Jeffery Dahmer stay free for so long? You can't tell a book by its cover.
    What does he have to do with the discussion? We are talking you and your behaviour and us the readers. Please leave others out of it.

    I think you should edit that first sentence.
    I can make it simple. I asked you if those who know you say you are sin free. Your answer was essentially, that they have no say in whether you treat them in sin or without sin. You are sin free but no one else should be able to tell the difference between sin free and those who sin, namely you. If that is not the case, please clarify. That is certainly the impression you left and MM also has indicated that his life and choices that others enjoy or suffer from have nothing to do with his being free from sin.
    You turned down the chance to ask them yourself, remember?
    I didn't need to do so. After a while a man who is not sin free cannot help but revealing his choices that are not free from sin. In things you wrote you clearly revealed that you are not free from sin. No need to come there.
    My writings must be different from all the other obedient to God writers you peruse. How about listing their names?
    Others obedient to God? Easy. The apostles Paul, John, Peter, James to name a few. And I do not see that you are obedient to God. Your words do not demonstrate that kind of holiness.

    BTW, you have yet to post that list of sins you allege I committed.
    I told you when it happened and it has been more than once. Your response was not in humility. You were pretty resentful or angry. You recently wrote that people who do not live a certain way are in the toilet and thought that that is the same as salt being saltless. I mean this is such a crass lack of discernment it shows a real anger towards people such that you say really nasty things about those not in your camp. No one who walks obeying God does this. Being saltless is not nasty. Not tasty but not gross. What you say is meant to be disgusting. Saltless salt is not disgusting. This is how I know you do not obey God. Your words lack the love for people he has.
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    If you obeyed God, everyone reading your posts would know it. If you obeyed God everyone watching you would know it. As it is, if I ask others who live and work with you if you are sinless, you deny that they should see anything close to sinless. They are supposed to have nothing to say about what they see because, we can assume, they see nothing sinless in your life. Your posts are not the kind that those free of sin write.
    I have a correction to make. If Phil2 were obeying God, not everyone would know as Jesus was obeying God and not everyone recognized this. What is true is that some people would know and the posts written would be definately different than they are. They would not talk at all about how sin free the poster is, they would talk more about God Himself and people. Very much less, if at all, about the self. This would be radically different.
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    What? I have asked you this before. What exactly is lost on judgement day?
    I have answered you many times.

    Rewards. Salvation is a gift, given when people believe on Jesus Christ, rewards are earned according to how we live. There will be a huge difference between a person who gets to reign with Jesus Christ and a person who is saved "as one escaping through the flames". IE: with nothing.

    What do you tell others they have to lose in the sweet by and by for sinning?
    "Sweet by and by"?

    What do you tell them they have to lose here and now?
    There are always consequences to sin. Even if there aren't many in this life (many people get away with great evil for now..), there assuredly will be in the next.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    I have a correction to make. If Phil2 were obeying God, not everyone would know as Jesus was obeying God and not everyone recognized this. What is true is that some people would know and the posts written would be definately different than they are. They would not talk at all about how sin free the poster is, they would talk more about God Himself and people. Very much less, if at all, about the self. This would be radically different.
    Dear dot,
    Does that mean if dot was obeying God, that she would be harping on poor p2 all the time. I thought Yeshua said to first take the log out one's own eye before trying to take the splinter out of someone else's eye.

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