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Thread: Does God Test Us?

  1. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    God doesn't think so. Cults certainly do because what word to use to address the Almighty gives the feeling of being holier than others who do not and costs a man nothing whatsoever. Jesus never used anything but Father when addressing God that I recall. Certainly no name. None at all. But those who think they are holier than Jesus can use secret or special words.
    The point I'm trying to make is that under the name of God, men make war with each other.

    Let's look at an example in our time. 911. When this happened, we went to war with the so called terroists. We fought for "God" and justice against our enemies of evil. But what is the truth?

    Our government is to blame for those buildings in cooperation with the so called "other side".

    It's like a game. On the court during the performance, Michael Jordan and Charles Barkley were rivals. Off the court, they are good buddies.

    So is it with the leaders of the nations. In public there is tension as if they are at odds. Behind closed doors they work together. Their goal is to stay in power. In order to do that they must keep us divided.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Israel View Post
    The point I'm trying to make is that under the name of God, men make war with each other.
    Well, if they don't know the name they can't be making war under that name. What does happen is men make war to gain material or power and t hey use whatever motivates the masses to die for them. "WE are being attacked" works today whereas "in the name of God" worked years ago. If people are stupid, they can be taught to lay down their lives or anything for anyone.
    Let's look at an example in our time. 911. When this happened, we went to war with the so called terroists. We fought for "God" and justice against our enemies of evil. But what is the truth?
    Maybe you were too young then but I recall the speeches and Bush never appealed to fighting for God. Sorry but it was "we were attacked" and the young went and died so they could gain the oil lands and legistlation. Worked beautifully. Even attacked nations that had nothing to do with the matter. See how that works?
    Our government is to blame for those buildings in cooperation with the so called "other side".
    I agree but God had nothing to do with it.
    It's like a game. On the court during the performance, Michael Jordan and Charles Barkley were rivals. Off the court, they are good buddies.
    Mutual goals.
    So is it with the leaders of the nations. In public there is tension as if they are at odds. Behind closed doors they work together. Their goal is to stay in power. In order to do that they must keep us divided.
    I agree this might be the case but God has nothing to do with it.
    Last edited by Dottie; 05-19-2017 at 09:13 AM.
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    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

  3. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    I agree but God had nothing to do with it.
    Mutual goals.
    I agree this might be the case but God has nothing to do with it.
    But the bible says our leaders are chosen by god and should be obeyed.

    Roger
    It is not God that kills the children, not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs.
    It's us. Only us. - Rorschach

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  5. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Israel View Post
    None of this really makes any sense. Nothing I stated came from any mythical source. I don't know what "star stuff" is. I am however, made of love and wisdom.

    How can you agree that God has made us all, and then state that we have different fathers? According to the flesh that may be so, but according to the truth and Spirit, we are all brothers and sisters.

    Nature does not teach us to war. All are born with no knowledge of good and evil, so to instinctively love drama doesn't exist.

    Leave a newborn baby alone to fend for himself. When that baby gets hungry, let's see if he instinctively finds food.

    No, these things are all taught. And it is in our own lusts that we do things CONTRARY to nature.

    You don't see squirrels selling nuts to other squirrels, but somehow we think we can improve upon free.
    I do not agree that a God made us and your barter system is a ridiculous idea given that we now mostly live in hives instead of villages.

    If your gather is God, then he is a deadbeat dad.

    You somehow think that man is the only animal without instincts. That is too foolish to speak to.

    Seems we are done on these two issues.

    As to war, where do you think man gets his aggressive nature if not from his instincts?

    I would agree, thanks to animal research, that we can reduce the level of agree in individuals through nurture but we are not doing it.

    Regards
    DL

  6. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by An Onymous Brother View Post
    Whatever fairy tale makes you sleep at night is fine.

    You kill more living beings every time you brush your teeth.

    Since you have made a God in your own image, it is obvious he will have your morals. His very existence depends on your acceptance, or you will create another one.

    By whose standards?

    I hold fast that God has the right to wipe his -- with us if he so chooses. You seem to believe He has to submit to your standards of conduct.

    Hence, you made your own god that does.

    Did you brush your teeth this morning? Ever use disinfectant on a wound? Call an exterminator?

    Moral thinking requires a social context in which the morals apply. The context I am in is called "Christianity". The morals of this context are set by God and not his creations, and have been passed down to us in the Bible. You prefer to eat of the fruit and make those decisions yourself, and thus have to create a god that accedes to those morals you choose to impose on him.

    Feel free to do so.

    It is your Matrix.
    Note how your delusional thinking compares us to microbes so that you can try to justify yuour God murdering children and babies.

    If you cannot recognize how sick minded that is, it just shows how your religion has corrupted your moral sense.

    BTW. I started a thread on this if you think you would like to participate, go ahead.

    http://forum.bible-discussion.com/sh...49#post1325949

    Regards
    DL
    .
    Last edited by Greatest I am; 05-19-2017 at 08:27 AM.

  7. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogerh View Post
    But the bible says our leaders are chosen by god and should be obeyed.

    Roger
    Hitler and Stalin would agree with that.

    Regards
    DL

  8. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by An Onymous Brother View Post
    I think you're talking about what it takes to become a JW. I'm talking about what it takes to become a Christian.
    "become a Christian" or simply say "I'm a Christian?"
    Become a Christian. A person becomes a Christian when he confesses Jesus Christ as Lord and believes in his heart that God raised him from the dead (Rom 10:9). When he does that, he is sealed with the gift of holy spirit, guaranteeing salvation (Eph 1:13-14).

    The NT does not disagree with the OT. Being "saved" is not something you cannot lose.
    That was true in the OT. Since Pentecost, people are born of God.

    Remember, our adoption does not take place until the end.
    I John 3:
    1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
    2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

    We are under Grace and not license, subject to being un-grafted:

    21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.
    22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

    Time will tell. Some believe he is more strict. Wouldn't that be a kicker!

    Judgment is best left to the judge. All we can do is pontificate.
    We can read, study, and believe the scriptures.

    Being a JW requires constant personal study.
    Every Christian should study.

    Except the ones that fall from Grace. Even Paul did not consider himself "saved" until he was basically dying:

    2 Tim 4
    6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.
    7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
    8 Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.

    Before that, he never made such statements:

    Phili 3

    8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ
    9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—
    10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
    11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
    12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.
    13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,
    14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
    15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you.
    16 Only let us hold true to what we have attained.

    1 Cor 9
    24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it.
    25 Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
    26 So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air.
    27 But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.
    Paul did not work for salvation. Neither do we. Salvation is the gift of God, given when people believe on Jesus Christ. It is not by works. (Rom 10:9-10; Eph 1:13-14; Eph 2:8-9). What we work for are rewards in the kingdom (and the eternal kingdom). Rewards are earned, and can be lost. Salvation cannot be lost. We are sons of God NOW.

  9. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogerh View Post
    But the bible says our leaders are chosen by god and should be obeyed.

    Roger
    No, it does not. The matter is more complex than that. The disciples defied their leaders and did not say they were defying men chosen by God. John the B and Jesus himself said very uncomplimentary things to leaders. What is more, the worst leader in human history is the Beast. He sets/set himself up against God and his own. Not chosen by God. You are attacking a strawman ..................again, Roger.
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    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

  10. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    No, it does not. The matter is more complex than that. The disciples defied their leaders and did not say they were defying men chosen by God. John the B and Jesus himself said very uncomplimentary things to leaders. What is more, the worst leader in human history is the Beast. He sets/set himself up against God and his own. Not chosen by God. You are attacking a strawman ..................again, Roger.
    Necessarily so; it's all there is, just fantasy.

    Roger
    It is not God that kills the children, not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs.
    It's us. Only us. - Rorschach

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogerh View Post
    Necessarily so; it's all there is, just fantasy.

    Roger
    Then you would not be attempting to make an argument. The truth presses in. In any case, your understanding of God and leaders is too simple. It is much more complex than that. And Christians have been known to fight against the government when they do wrong.
    Last edited by Dottie; 05-19-2017 at 12:10 PM.
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

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