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Thread: Does God Test Us?

  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    Only if they have confessed Jesus Christ as Lord and believed in their heart that God raised him from the dead. When a person does that, he receives (is baptized in) the gift of holy spirit and becomes a child of God.

    It was not my intent. Apologies if it appeared so.

    What "oath"?

    "approved for baptism"? Into what? The JW organization?

    As far as being baptized into the Christian church, the body of Christ, the requirements are to believe the gospel, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom 10:9; Eph 1:13).

    Again, what oath?
    This "oath" (well, assertion):

    At the conclusion of the baptism talk, the speaker will ask the baptism candidates to stand and answer the following two questions in a loud voice:

    1. On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

    2. Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization?

    Affirmative answers to these questions constitute a “public declaration” by the baptism candidates that they have put faith in the ransom and have unreservedly dedicated themselves to Jehovah. (Rom. 10:9, 10) Baptism candidates will want to give prayerful thought to these questions in advance so that they can answer in harmony with their personal convictions.
    That last sentence is quite critical.

    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    I think you're talking about what it takes to become a JW. I'm talking about what it takes to become a Christian.
    "become a Christian" or simply say "I'm a Christian?"

    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    Read the NT.
    The NT does not disagree with the OT. Being "saved" is not something you cannot lose. Remember, our adoption does not take place until the end. We are under Grace and not license, subject to being un-grafted:

    21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.
    22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    God is not nearly as strict as JWs.
    Time will tell. Some believe he is more strict. Wouldn't that be a kicker!

    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    Even Trinitarians can teach people to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, that he is the fulcrum salvation hinges upon. Are they wrong in believing God is a Trinity? Absolutely. It does not mean Trinitarians will not be saved.
    Judgment is best left to the judge. All we can do is pontificate.

    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    Make sure some of your more zealous brothers know that...
    Being a JW requires constant personal study.

    <Sometimes brethren do not keep up to date>

    Many millions who lived in centuries past and who weren’t Jehovah’s Witnesses will have an opportunity for salvation. The Bible explains that in God’s promised new world, “there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” (Acts 24:15) Additionally, many now living may yet begin to serve God, and they too will gain salvation. In any case, it’s not our job to judge who will or won’t be saved. That assignment rests squarely in Jesus’ hands.—John 5:22, 27.
    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    Every Christian (person born of holy spirit) is guaranteed salvation.
    Except the ones that fall from Grace. Even Paul did not consider himself "saved" until he was basically dying:

    2 Tim 4
    6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.
    7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
    8 Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.

    Before that, he never made such statements:

    Phili 3

    8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ
    9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—
    10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
    11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
    12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.
    13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,
    14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
    15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you.
    16 Only let us hold true to what we have attained.

    1 Cor 9
    24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it.
    25 Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
    26 So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air.
    27 But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.
    "You [the Father], the Only True God" -- Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Israel View Post
    Where is the Lord thy God (YHWH) from? Egypt!
    Well Israel, I'm sure you think you've said something profound here, but interestingly enough, the Septuangint, the scripture used by the Early Christian Church says this:

    Hosea 13:4 LXX εγω δε κυριος ο θεος σου στερεων ουρανον και κτιζων γην ου αι χειρες εκτισαν πασαν την στρατιαν του ουρανου και ου παρεδειξα σοι αυτα του πορευεσθαι οπισω αυτων και εγω ανηγαγον σε εκ γης αιγυπτου και θεον πλην εμου ου γνωση και σωζων ουκ εστιν παρεξ εμου

    Which roughly reads... "But I the Lord the God of you establish the heavens ... blah blah ... created the luminaries of the heavens and ... (let's get to the good part) ... and I led you out of Egypt and you will know no other God besides me ... and are saved not by others except me."

    WOW.

    How did they mess up that much of the Hebrew? Some words got dropped out somewhere...

    Yet I am the Lord thy God who removed you from the land of Egypt,

    But I readily admit I am not a profession of Dead Testament studies, and have no wish to be.

    Yehushuan
    "Everybody thinks they're doing the right thing." - Gordon Anke
    (One of wisest men I've known. RIP 3/5/17)

    Current ignore list: JimD, smoky, De Maria


  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
    Like you, I have, and my God is not worried about saying that your genocidal son murdering God has satanic morals.
    Whatever fairy tale makes you sleep at night is fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
    Why do you follow a genocidal God who is more Satan-like than God-like.
    You kill more living beings every time you brush your teeth.

    Since you have made a God in your own image, it is obvious he will have your morals. His very existence depends on your acceptance, or you will create another one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
    1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.
    By whose standards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
    You seem to be holding fast to thinking that genocide is good because your God used it.
    I hold fast that God has the right to wipe his -- with us if he so chooses. You seem to believe He has to submit to your standards of conduct.

    Hence, you made your own god that does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
    I think the opposite because I answered a simple question that I pose to you.

    Who is more likely to use genocide, God or Satan?
    Did you brush your teeth this morning? Ever use disinfectant on a wound? Call an exterminator?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
    If you even bother to try to improve your moral thinking by answering that truthfully, try this one.

    Who is more likely to ask for the punishment of the innocent instead of the guilty and think it good justice? God or Satan?

    Regards
    DL
    Moral thinking requires a social context in which the morals apply. The context I am in is called "Christianity". The morals of this context are set by God and not his creations, and have been passed down to us in the Bible. You prefer to eat of the fruit and make those decisions yourself, and thus have to create a god that accedes to those morals you choose to impose on him.

    Feel free to do so.

    It is your Matrix.
    "You [the Father], the Only True God" -- Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yehushuan View Post
    Well Israel, I'm sure you think you've said something profound here, but interestingly enough, the Septuangint, the scripture used by the Early Christian Church says this:

    Hosea 13:4 LXX εγω δε κυριος ο θεος σου στερεων ουρανον και κτιζων γην ου αι χειρες εκτισαν πασαν την στρατιαν του ουρανου και ου παρεδειξα σοι αυτα του πορευεσθαι οπισω αυτων και εγω ανηγαγον σε εκ γης αιγυπτου και θεον πλην εμου ου γνωση και σωζων ουκ εστιν παρεξ εμου

    Which roughly reads... "But I the Lord the God of you establish the heavens ... blah blah ... created the luminaries of the heavens and ... (let's get to the good part) ... and I led you out of Egypt and you will know no other God besides me ... and are saved not by others except me."

    WOW.

    How did they mess up that much of the Hebrew? Some words got dropped out somewhere...

    Yet I am the Lord thy God who removed you from the land of Egypt,

    But I readily admit I am not a profession of Dead Testament studies, and have no wish to be.

    Yehushuan
    Genesis 4

    26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.

    What name did they use? YHWH was one of them!

    Exodus 6

    2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord:

    3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them.

    It is the physical NAME I bring into question and not the Spirit behind it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Israel View Post
    Genesis 4

    26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.

    What name did they use? YHWH was one of them!
    I highly doubt YHWH was one of them. Men still call on the name of the Lord and the word they use is quite different depending upon the language. God is not fixed to one language.
    Exodus 6

    2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord:

    3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them.

    It is the physical NAME I bring into question and not the Spirit behind it.
    Different names for different peoples. He does not possess a "personal" name to distinguish him from others of his kind. He doesn't need to do so.
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by An Onymous Brother View Post
    Since you have made a God in your own image, it is obvious he will have your morals. His very existence depends on your acceptance, or you will create another one.
    The same could be said of every God throughout history.
    And the officer said, "better get a lawyer son, better get a real good one".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    I highly doubt YHWH was one of them. Men still call on the name of the Lord and the word they use is quite different depending upon the language. God is not fixed to one language.


    Different names for different peoples. He does not possess a "personal" name to distinguish him from others of his kind. He doesn't need to do so.
    All earthly names on earth today are blasphemous. They are the wild beasts mentioned in Hosea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Israel View Post
    All earthly names on earth today are blasphemous. They are the wild beasts mentioned in Hosea.
    Nonsense. If a baby says "da da" instead of "father," the papa does yell, "blasphemy" at the child. If earthly fathers can see what the child means certainly God does.
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Nonsense. If a baby says "da da" instead of "father," the papa does yell, "blasphemy" at the child. If earthly fathers can see what the child means certainly God does.
    God and mammon don't mix. God under any name is broke and needs money to spread his message.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Israel View Post
    God and mammon don't mix. God under any name is broke and needs money to spread his message.
    God doesn't think so. Cults certainly do because what word to use to address the Almighty gives the feeling of being holier than others who do not and costs a man nothing whatsoever. Jesus never used anything but Father when addressing God that I recall. Certainly no name. None at all. But those who think they are holier than Jesus can use secret or special words.
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

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