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Thread: Does God Test Us?

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    Default Does God Test Us?

    If so, what would be the point of that when he already knows the outcome?

    So, I guess that's point one. Anyway, from the bible we have two perspectives.

    1. God Tests Us but doesn't TEMPT us.

    2. God doesn't test us except in the regard of that which is natural. Bible support: "“Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”

    Now, some may criticize my choice of scriptures here as it also contains a fearful warning of causality....except you repent you will likewise perish. But, read the verse without that part in it. Wait, why would I suggest that you read that verse without that significant and repeated part?

    Because people edit the bible, that's why.

    In light of this, and with my recommendation.....here's what we see from the context and the text itself. Jesus is clearly stating that devastating events are simply a part of nature.

    Well duh! I mean seriously. I'm not mocking the statement of Jesus at all....BTW.....I'm talking about the notion that the world isn't natural. To think that storms, hurricanes, tornadoes and such are directed by the finger of God is to have no understanding of science whatsoever. And science ain't stupid - like most of the people who think that it is - are.

    Simply because you can't call science false, or stupid unless you simply don't know what you're talking about.
    For when nothing can be as it is, then whatever is turns into nothing. Yehushuan

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    In any event, that's the thread.....Does God test us? If he does, then he micro-manages our lives.
    For when nothing can be as it is, then whatever is turns into nothing. Yehushuan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    In any event, that's the thread.....Does God test us? If he does, then he micro-manages our lives.
    Yeah. You covered a lot of ground in that first posting that has nothing to do with being tested. You advanced more the threat of retribution. But to your question ...

    God tests man but does not tempt him to evil. Well have you said that God knows the outcome. But does the man? The answer for the tests is very simple. God wants the man or woman to find out what is in them so that it can be dealt with. So in one of the greatest Chapters on human experience in the Bible we read in Deuteronomy 8:1-20;

    1 "All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers.
    2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.
    3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
    4 Thy raiment waxed not old upon thee, neither did thy foot swell, these forty years.
    5 Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so the LORD thy God chasteneth thee.
    6 Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him.
    7 For the LORD thy God bringeth thee into a good land, a land of brooks of water, of fountains and depths that spring out of valleys and hills;
    8 A land of wheat, and barley, and vines, and fig trees, and pomegranates; a land of oil olive, and honey;
    9 A land wherein thou shalt eat bread without scarceness, thou shalt not lack any thing in it; a land whose stones are iron, and out of whose hills thou mayest dig brass.
    10 When thou hast eaten and art full, then thou shalt bless the LORD thy God for the good land which he hath given thee.
    11 Beware that thou forget not the LORD thy God, in not keeping his commandments, and his judgments, and his statutes, which I command thee this day:
    12 Lest when thou hast eaten and art full, and hast built goodly houses, and dwelt therein;
    13 And when thy herds and thy flocks multiply, and thy silver and thy gold is multiplied, and all that thou hast is multiplied;
    14 Then thine heart be lifted up, and thou forget the LORD thy God, which brought thee forth out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage;
    15 Who led thee through that great and terrible wilderness, wherein were fiery serpents, and scorpions, and drought, where there was no water; who brought thee forth water out of the rock of flint;
    16 Who fed thee in the wilderness with manna, which thy fathers knew not, that he might humble thee, and that he might prove thee, to do thee good at thy latter end;
    17 And thou say in thine heart, My power and the might of mine hand hath gotten me this wealth.
    18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.
    19 And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish.
    20 As the nations which the LORD destroyeth before your face, so shall ye perish; because ye would not be obedient unto the voice of the LORD your God."


    God was about to give Israel a choice Land. In this Land God's power, reputation, testimony and House was to be built before the heathen nations around them. After leaving Egypt this nation of Israel was singularly useless for this task. They were a bunch of idol-worshiping, soft-willed, self-seeking murmurers - unfit for God and man. So God allowed a set of circumstances entailing hardship to descend upon them. He starts by not taking them the shortest way. In Exodus 13:17 we read; "And it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God led them not through the way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they return to Egypt:" The Jews were cowards, ready to flee from a flea. They must experience war and hardship to LEARN that they, with God's strength behind them, could fight and win, with all the hardships that a soldier must endure to win. They must LEARN that they were proud - so God humbled them. They must LEARN that they were weak - so that they must trust in God. They must be poor - that they may learn Who it is that gives wealth on earth. They must LEARN the whip on their backs - so that they became obedient. All this must be LEARNED for God's goal of the Land.

    When dealing with a man's character we know, from the annuls of human history, that hardship has one of two effects. It either (1) kills, or it (2) hardens. And this depends again on to things; (1) the man's constitution, and (2) the man's will. That is why the Special Forces around the world are made of volunteers who undergo a selection. For the prize and prestige of being a Navy Seal in the USA, the soldier is willing to undergo tremendous abuse. And just when he thinks that he is at his end, he finds new limits that he did not know he had. But the grit to succeed is in the mind. If the average stock-broker of Wall Street, whose pride and arrogance are his only attributes, was subject to this abuse, he would die shortly. His mind is set on greed and the good things of life. It is a totally inadequate frame of mind to be a true hero.

    Now, Israel had to LEARN physical battles, but the Christian must learn both physical AND spiritual battles. In 1st Corinthians 10:1-11 we learn;

    1 "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
    2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
    3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
    4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
    5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
    6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted

    ....

    11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."


    The Christian must not be fooled into thinking that once he/she has converted to Jesus as Savior that his/her troubles are over. NO! They are just beginning. These troubles are like a hot, weary wilderness full of sunstroke, thirst, hunger, cold and hot winds, blisters, sore shoulders and the whip. Peter calls it a "FIERY TRIAL" in 1st Peter 4:12, and "heaviness through manifold temptations" in 1st Peter 1:6. But the goal is the same. Before the Jew was set the Good Land and its freedom and plenty. Before the Christian is set the Kingdom of Heaven with its fame and bliss when Christ comes to rule for 1,000 years. Both need training, and the first step to dealing with a problem is for the student to KNOW that he/she has shortcomings. The alcoholic and/or drug addict must ADMIT the problem, otherwise the treatment will kill - not cure. They must LEARN of their shortcoming and then they will have the right mind-set to undergo the hardship attached to purging it out.

    Surely God sends Trials ...
    2nd Chronicles 32:31; "Howbeit in the business of the ambassadors of the princes of Babylon, who sent unto him to enquire of the wonder that was done in the land, God left him, to try him, that he might know all that was in his heart."

    ... but never to destroy ...
    1st Corinthians 10:13; "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

    ... and He never provokes a man to evil;
    James 1:13; "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corban View Post
    God tests man but does not tempt him to evil.
    True.

    Well have you said that God knows the outcome.
    Gen 22:
    1) After these things God tested Abraham and said to him, "Abraham!" And he said, "Here am I."

    ...............

    12) He said, "Do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him, for now I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son, from me."

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    Reaching full maturity, at times requires pain and trouble. It requires us to stretch and get beyond ourselves. Call it a test if you must, it certainly feels like being tested but it is hardly about success, it is about faith. Which is the part that seems strange, it is God who provides the success or failure and we need to get over the need for success. We cant really claim the success is ours and therefore cant blame ourselves for failures either. In God's eyes it is the faith that He looks for and is happy just to know that we choose Him even at the times when all seems lost.
    "Any jackass can kick down a barn," former U.S. Houston Speaker Sam Rayburn once said with his famous Texas bluntness, "but it takes a good carpenter to build one."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    If so, what would be the point of that when he already knows the outcome?
    Yes, God sometimes tries one's faith for his own purposes--to strengthen true (Jas 1:2-4), or to reveal false faith (1Pe 1:6-7) which falls away (1Jn 2:19).

    .
    Last edited by smoky; 05-01-2017 at 02:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smoky View Post
    Yes, God sometimes tries one's faith for his own purposes, revealing in the trial whether it is true or false faith (1Pe 1:6-7).
    But in the "Free Will" thread, you think God is sovereign to the extent of determining who will be saved and who won't. You think God regenerates people BEFORE they believe. What purpose could He have in testing someone whose faith He already knows is true or false?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by smoky View Post
    Yes, God sometimes tries one's faith for his own purposes:
    to strengthen true faith (Jas 1:2-4), or
    to reveal false faith (1Pe 1:6-7), which falls away.
    But in the "Free Will" thread, you think God is sovereign to the extent of determining who will be saved and who won't.
    You are a wealth of misinformation. . .all over the board. . .for no such thing is stated there.

    What purpose could He have in testing someone whose faith He already knows is true or false?
    Previously addressed. . .above.

    .
    Last edited by smoky; 05-01-2017 at 02:21 PM.

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    If God's goal is to increase our faith, then is it really "testing" our faith or is it really giving us opportunities to increase it?

    Testing implies finding out if there is faith at all, God did promise that the smoking wick He will not put out. It night seem a rather semantic difference but from God's POV, His interest is not to destroy weak faith but to build it up.

    From the human POV it might seem like God is trying to destroy our faith though.
    "Any jackass can kick down a barn," former U.S. Houston Speaker Sam Rayburn once said with his famous Texas bluntness, "but it takes a good carpenter to build one."

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    Quote Originally Posted by smoky View Post
    Yes, God sometimes tries one's faith for his own purposes--to strengthen it (Jas 1:2-4), or to reveal in the trial whether it is true faith or false faith (1Pe 1:6-7).
    Good response.
    For when nothing can be as it is, then whatever is turns into nothing. Yehushuan

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Philip For This Useful Post:

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