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Thread: Why Jesus was NEVER Dead- says CHURCHianity

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    ...There is no Purgatory. It is a fabricated doctrine of Catholicism.
    No. Although the Jews did not give it a name, they understood that the spirits of men could be freed of their punishment, in the after life.

    2 Macc 12:40
    But under the tunic of each of the dead they found amulets sacred to the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. So it was clear to all that this was why these men had fallen. 41They all therefore praised the ways of the Lord, the just judge who brings to light the things that are hidden. 42 Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen.g
    43He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection in mind;
    44 for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead.
    45 But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought.
    46 Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be absolved from their sin.

    I believe those scripture.
    No, you don't. You deny the Body of Christ which He offered for your sins and thus spurn the Son of God, and you reject the Blood of Christ which He poured out on Calvary and thus profane the blood of the covenant and therefore outrage the Holy Spirit of grace which is given to all who partake of the Body and Blood of the Lord.

    Your point?
    That in so doing, you have made yourself God's enemy.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by An Onymous Brother View Post
    Scriptures say what they do.
    These are Trinitarian verses.

    John 14:23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
    Because Jesus and the Father are One.

    Romans 6:4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
    Notice that it says "by the glory" of the Father. Not by the Father. In another verse it says:

    Romans 1:3 the gospel concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh 4 and designated[a] Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations,

    Thus, the Glory and the Spirit of the Father are synonymous.

    I'm not denying that the Father raised Jesus. But so did the Holy Spirit and so did the Son of God, Himself. Because the Three are One God.

    8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
    Note how the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Jesus, are one and the same.

    10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
    So, if Christ in you, the Spirit of God, the Father is in you because Jesus and the Father are One. And that is the entire Trinity. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

    11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.
    The Spirit is still mentioned as an Individual. A Person. Thus, the Trinity continues to be highlighted in this series of Scriptures.

    Refuted.
    Neh. I tried to explain the typology revealed in those verses, but it must have gone over your head. Suffice to say that Jesus taught the typological method when He revealed that Jona's three days in the fish were a foreshadowing of His three days in the grave. There are other examples, like the raising of the bronze serpent also being a foreshadowing of His Crucifixion.

    So, let's write the true version (again), shall we?
    You've been bamboozled man. The NWT is notorious for its shameful translation of God's Word.

    8 But of the Son he says,

    “God is your throne forever and ever,
    and the righteous scepter is the scepter of his kingdom.

    9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
    therefore God, your God, has anointed you
    with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

    And then we have Psalm 45, which refers not to God, but to Solomon.
    No, I mean God. Solomon was a type of Christ. But really, it would take too long to explain that to you. Besides, I don't think you care to learn about it. You merely want to deny and reject anything that you can't conceive.

    Except Jesus, himself, at John 17:3
    We've been through that. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are One True God.

    You mean, the right side of the Father's throne.
    His Throne is at the right hand of the Father, yes.

    Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son he says,

    “Thy throne, O God,[a] is for ever and ever,
    the righteous scepter is the scepter of thy[b] kingdom.

    So now, the POPE is the second person of the trinity, too?

    Cool.
    Only a Jehovah Witness would gloat when they say something cryptic and confuse the argument. I had no idea what you were talking about when you said, "your totem". We have no totem. Its hard to take you people seriously when you don't even take yourself seriously.

    Yours is too filled with traditions of men.
    Ours are the Teachings of Jesus Christ, which are passed down through the Church by Sacred Tradition and Scripture.

    Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
    Exactly. That would be a warning against your sects teachings.

    Review:

    John 17:3 "thee [the Father] the Only True God"
    Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)


    The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one True God.

    We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (Šons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;


    Amen!

    Human tradition (4th Century CE)
    Sacred Tradition. This is an example of Development of Doctrine.
    John 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

    John 4:23 "the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth"
    Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)
    In other words, true worshipers will know that the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are one God. Think about it. This is what Jesus said to the Samaritan woman at the well. What did they believe? They had never heard of the Son and the Holy Spirit. Therefore, they did not worship in Spirit and Truth.

    Here's what else that verse says:

    21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for such the Father seeks to worship him. 24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

    Thus, Jesus revealed God the Holy Spirit.

    And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spake by the prophets.


    Amen!

    Human tradition (4th Century CE)
    Sacred Tradition which is confirmed in Scripture, as you have seen above. God is Spirit. The Spirit is Life. Read your Scripture. Even the NWT has those words.

    Not until after that middle head died. So, again, God was not worthy until after God died.
    You can't help being an insulting person, can you? That's because you're frustrated that you are debunked at every turn. So, if you want to claim that Scripture says that God wasn't worthy, have at it. That is your belief, not mine.
    Yeah.

    I didn't. You are the one saying Jesus is God, not I.
    Yeah and amen! Jesus is God! Jesus is God! Jesus is God!

    Either he was worthy or not? Was God worthy before he died or not? You say "not."
    Are you implying that Jesus was not worthy to open the scrolls before He died? I guess you've jumped to another false conclusion on your own. If you want help solving your dilemma, you might want to explain why you come to that conclusion.

    It makes me able to judge the creation of an idol.
    Your own.

    For if this totem pole head was not worthy until after the resurrection, seems like this totem pole of yours is basically "worthless" and not of one substance.
    I guess your going to stick to your insolent language. But ok. Where does that say that Jesus was not worthy before He died? Which words lead you to that conclusion?

    One that is never stated in the scriptures as comprising one "God."
    We have the testimony of the men who wrote the Scriptures, carried on by the Church:

    John 15:25 It is to fulfil the word that is written in their law, ‘They hated me without a cause.’ 26 But when the Counselor comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness to me; 27 and you also are witnesses, because you have been with me from the beginning.


    You see, we believe the Church which Jesus Christ established and which is still here, preaching the Wisdom of God:

    Ephesians 3:10 that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places.

    I'm pretty sure I've addressed all the rest. The problem remains that you pit Scripture against Scripture. Whereas, we accept the entirety of the Bible, Old and New Testaments.

    But, possibly more importantly, you don't recognize that the New Testament was written based upon the Testimony of the Church. This Tradition still exists and can help you to understand God's Teachings.

    You seem to, however, understand the value of works. And perhaps, as our Pope so eloquently said, "Do good and we will meet one another, there."

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agape View Post
    I'm not trying to convert you - just expose you.
    Not everybody who goes to Heaven converts to Catholicism - but ALL those in Heaven are Catholic . . .
    Nobody is in heaven yet except for Jesus Christ. That's another false teaching of Catholicism.

    John 3:
    13) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    There are just too many things you guys have wrong. One day you'll know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    No. Although the Jews did not give it a name, they understood that the spirits of men could be freed of their punishment, in the after life.

    2 Macc 12:40
    But under the tunic of each of the dead they found amulets sacred to the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. So it was clear to all that this was why these men had fallen. 41They all therefore praised the ways of the Lord, the just judge who brings to light the things that are hidden. 42 Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen.g
    43He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection in mind;
    44 for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead.
    45 But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought.
    46 Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be absolved from their sin.
    Maccabees is not scripture.

    No, you don't.
    Yes, I do.

    You deny the Body of Christ which He offered for your sins and thus spurn the Son of God
    I do not deny the body of Christ.

    and you reject the Blood of Christ which He poured out on Calvary
    I do not deny the blood of Christ.

    and thus profane the blood of the covenant and therefore outrage the Holy Spirit of grace which is given to all who partake of the Body and Blood of the Lord.

    That in so doing, you have made yourself God's enemy.
    I am not God's enemy. He loves me and I love Him.

    One day you'll know that most of the things the Catholic Church has taught you are false.

    But you will not be convinced for now, so I'm bowing out.

    I truly hope things work out for you all.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    Maccabees is not scripture.
    Lol! Yes, it is. You see, in that tradition, you follow Luther, who followed the anti-Christian Jews. They hated Jesus so much, that they rejected the very Scriptures which is the foundation of Hanukkah. Isn't that wonderful? The Catholic Church upheld the inspiration of that story and they, reject it!

    I am not God's enemy. He loves me and I love Him.
    God measures love by obedience:

    Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

    You can say you love God all day long. But if you reject the one sacrifice which remains for your sins, then you reject God's love. And that Sacrifice, is the Holy Eucharist.

    One day you'll know that most of the things the Catholic Church has taught you are false.
    No. It will be you who rues the day you rejected the Catholic Church. I think you and I already went over the Berean episode. And how the Bereans were noble because they accepted the Testimony of the Church. But you cling to this idea that you know more than the Church. That you can interpret the Scriptures apart from the Church which Jesus Christ established to Teach the Wisdom of God.

    Why do you put yourself above Christ?

    Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

    But you will not be convinced for now, so I'm bowing out.

    I truly hope things work out for you all.
    Ok. Thanks for the polite conversation.

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