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Thread: Why Jesus was NEVER Dead- says CHURCHianity

  1. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by An Onymous Brother View Post
    Just because you say so?
    Because Scripture says so.

    You want to ignore that all this happens after the resurrection, when the Father has exalted the son to just a hint below Himself?
    No. But you want to ignore the plain words.

    8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

    And, did you notice that catch there? "He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high" having become . . .
    Yes, I did. But you can't understand that Scripture does not contradict itself. Therefore, when the Father calls His Son, God, that settles it. No one else can deny that His Son is God.

    What does that tell you? HINT:
    That Jesus returned to His Throne.

    Rev 5
    2 And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?”
    3 And no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it,
    4 and I began to weep loudly because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it.

    Your #2 head of your totem pole WAS NOT WORTHY TO OPEN THE SCROLL!!!!!
    If you mean the Pope, yes. That is true.

    GOD WAS NOT WORTHY??!?!?!!??
    I'm pretty sure I mentioned it before. Your understanding of Scripture is too literal. Scripture warns against that error:

    2 Corinthians 3:6 who has qualified us to be ministers of a new covenant, not in a written code but in the Spirit; for the written code kills, but the Spirit gives life.

    When that Scripture says "no one on heaven or earth", God is excluded. Furthermore, there was someone who was worthy, God, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity:

    Rev 5:5 Then one of the elders said to me, “Weep not; lo, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.”

    6 And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders, I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes,[b] which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth; 7 and he went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who was seated on the throne. 8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints; 9 and they sang a new song, saying,

    “Worthy art thou to take the scroll and to open its seals,
    for thou wast slain and by thy blood didst ransom men for God
    from every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
    10 and hast made them a kingdom and priests to our God,
    and they shall reign on earth.”

    Lol.
    That was my reaction when you said that the verse meant that God was not worthy. Really?

    Rev 5:5 And one of the elders said to me, “Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.”

    Now. Had all this taken place before the resurrection, you might have a case. As it is, you argue in circles, like a fly orbiting . . .
    Lol. What makes you the authority that something must take place before the resurrection. God did it this way and we accept it. Your opinion to the contrary matters not at all.

    Not quite.

    John 14:23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

    (CEB) John 17:26 I’ve made your name known to them and will continue to make it known so that your love for me will be in them, and I myself will be in them.”

    The Father's love is what enables unity with His son. Not the other way around.
    Interesting. God is love. The Father's love does not enable unity. The unity of the Three Divine Persons is a matter of fact.

    The Father loves the Son. The Son loves the Father. And the Holy Spirit is the love which the Father has for the Son and the Son has for the Father.
    This is why the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. Because love proceeds from the Father and the Son.

    Father is always supreme.
    [/QUOTE]

    That is Catholic Doctrine.

    245 The apostolic faith concerning the Spirit was confessed by the second ecumenical council at Constantinople (381): "We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of life, who proceeds from the Father."71 By this confession, the Church recognizes the Father as "the source and origin of the whole divinity".72 But the eternal origin of the Spirit is not unconnected with the Son's origin: "The Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity, is God, one and equal with the Father and the Son, of the same substance and also of the same nature. . . Yet he is not called the Spirit of the Father alone,. . . but the Spirit of both the Father and the Son."73 The Creed of the Church from the Council of Constantinople confesses: "With the Father and the Son, he is worshipped and glorified."74

    18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice. Yes, and I will rejoice,
    19 for I know that through your prayers and the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ this will turn out for my deliverance,
    20 as it is my eager expectation and hope that I will not be at all ashamed, but that with full courage now as always Christ will be honored in my body, whether by life or by death.

    Not quite what I get out of it.
    With all due respect, what you get out of it is worthless on a Catholic forum.

    No. Just because:

    1 Corinthians 15:45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

    Again, it's that post-resurrection thingy you keep wanting to gloss over:

    4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.
    I don't gloss over any of Scripture. I simply understand it in accordance with the Sacred Tradition of Jesus Christ. I know you want to ignore that in order that you twist Scripture to your heart's content. But that is your problem, not ours:

    2 Peter 3:14 Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. 15 And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 speaking of this[a] as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability.

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    Quote Originally Posted by An Onymous Brother View Post
    I understand that concept fine. I just don't buy it after Jesus says:

    John 17:3 . . . you [the Father (not Holy Trinity, nor "us." Just the Father)] the Only True God. . .
    And you don't buy it after the Father calls His Son, "God". And you don't buy it after Scripture Jesus says, "when you see the me, you see the Father" and you don't buy it after St. Thomas says of Jesus, "My Lord and my God".

    So, your words are in direct denial of Christ's.
    No. Yours are. You see, you take Word of God in Scripture and separate it from Sacred Tradition. But Scripture says that they are inseparable:

    2 Thessalonians 2:15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.

    And you deny the authority of the Church to Teach what Christ commanded:

    Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”

    Nah. Just that your translation is smoke and mirrors made to support your totem pole.
    Neh, the Catholic Translation is the Word of God.

    So, let's write the true version, shall we?

    8 But of the Son he says,

    God is your throne forever and ever,
    and the righteous scepter is the scepter of his kingdom.
    ROFL. The Jehovah Bible is sorely lacking in scholarship. Every reliable Bible says:

    New International Version
    But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.

    New Living Translation
    But to the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever. You rule with a scepter of justice.

    English Standard Version
    But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

    Berean Study Bible
    But about the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of Your kingdom.

    Berean Literal Bible
    But unto the Son: "Your throne, O God, is to the age of the age, and the scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

    New American Standard Bible
    But of the Son He says, "YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

    9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
    therefore God, your God, has anointed you
    with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

    Nah, you don't

    Or else you Hail King Solomon! the 4th God of the Trinity:

    Psalm 45:...Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you ....

    And believe God is speaking to His God? God^2?

    Psalm 102
    24 “O my God,” I say, “take me not away
    in the midst of my days—
    you whose years endure
    throughout all generations!”
    25 Of old you laid the foundation of the earth,
    and the heavens are the work of your hands.

    ....
    Perhaps you weren't paying attention when Jesus handled this objection:

    Matthew 22:42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
    43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
    44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
    45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
    46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

    This is why Jesus came into Jerusalem riding on a mule. To show that the prophesy was speaking of Him. Not of Solomon. Although Solomon also rode upon a mule. This was done in order to foreshadow the True Son of David/Son of God's entry into Jerusalem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by An Onymous Brother View Post
    Micah 6:8 He hath showed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth Jehovah require of thee, but to do justly, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with thy God?
    Very good. This is Catholic Teaching.

    Why complicate things with idol making?
    We don't. God has revealed Himself as a Trinity. You reject His Revelation and embrace heresy. That is your error.

    Not in the least.
    Good. Because you seem mighty preoccupied with that Doctrine.

    I believe idolatry is a major cause of damnation.
    Perhaps.

    That was my problem with the trinity golden calf, which you are even now trying to play down, quite falsely, too, from your comments later on.
    I don't see a relationship between the golden calf and the Holy Trinity. However, I do see a relationship between your rejection of God's Church and embracing your false religion.

    And idol-building is a major baddie.

    Just anti-idolater.
    Then you ought to humble yourself and submit to the Teaching of Jesus Christ, through His Church.

    Exactly!!

    John 4:23 "true worshipers will worship the Father"--Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)
    Luke 4:8 "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve"--Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)
    But Jesus revealed that He is God.

    John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

    And for Jesus and his followers, who was that God?
    The Holy Trinity. The fact that His followers were ignorant of the fact until He revealed it, matters not. This is what He revealed and it is why He was crucified.

    Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. 65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy. 66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.

    John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.


    John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not hold on to me, because I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
    And the Father said:

    Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

    What did Jesus say about his God, the Father?
    I think I've made my point. We're going in circles.

    You keep repeating verses which I accept. But when I place verses before you, you claim that they are misinterpreted and pose strange variants which no one has ever heard of except your sect.

    The bottomline is that you:

    1. pit Scripture against Scripture.
    2. reject the Scriptures which prove the Trinity.
    3. ignore and reject the Sacred Tradition which is the basis of the New Testament Scriptures. Thus, you have no basis for your interpretation.
    4. base your reading of Scripture upon the traditions of men which recently invented a new religion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by An Onymous Brother View Post
    Well, of course he did. Satan was in charge back then, didn't you realize?
    He's in charge of all who live in disobedience:

    "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:" Eph.2:2

    John 14:
    30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no claim on me,
    31 but I do as the Father has commanded me, so that the world may know that I love the Father. Rise, let us go from here.

    Even as Jesus he had the same problem until after the resurrection:

    31 Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you, that he might sift you as wheat:
    32 but I made supplication for thee, that thy faith fail not; and do thou, when once thou hast turned again, establish thy brethren.
    33 And he said unto him, Lord, with thee I am ready to go both to prison and to death.

    Not quite the "devouring fire", wouldn't you say?
    No, I wouldn't say that at all. Quite the opposite.

    "Is not My word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?" Jer.23:29

    Michael is busy fighting the wars the crown prince should be, is what you're saying?

    Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels going forth to war with the dragon; and the dragon warred and his angels;

    The most important war in creation, and God leaves it to a flunky?

    Yeah. Right.
    The war is raging now and we're all part of it. When Jesus returns, the burning becomes apparent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    Because Scripture says so.
    Scriptures say what they do.

    John 14:23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

    Romans 6:4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

    8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
    10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
    11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

    Quote Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    No. But you want to ignore the plain words.

    8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
    Refuted.

    [NRSVCE]

    8 But of the Son he says,

    “Your throne, O God, is[c] forever and ever,
    and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your[d] kingdom.
    9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
    therefore God, your God, has anointed you
    with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

    footnotes:

    c. Hebrews 1:8 Or God is your throne
    d. Hebrews 1:8 Other ancient authorities read his
    So, let's write the true version (again), shall we?

    8 But of the Son he says,

    “God is your throne forever and ever,
    and the righteous scepter is the scepter of his kingdom.

    9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
    therefore God, your God, has anointed you
    with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

    And then we have Psalm 45, which refers not to God, but to Solomon.

    Quote Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    Yes, I did. But you can't understand that Scripture does not contradict itself. Therefore, when the Father calls His Son, God, that settles it. No one else can deny that His Son is God.
    Except Jesus, himself, at John 17:3

    Quote Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    That Jesus returned to His Throne.
    You mean, the right side of the Father's throne.

    Quote Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    If you mean the Pope, yes. That is true.
    Your #2 head of your totem pole WAS NOT WORTHY TO OPEN THE SCROLL!!!!!
    So now, the POPE is the second person of the trinity, too?

    Cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    I'm pretty sure I mentioned it before. Your understanding of Scripture is too literal. Scripture warns against that error:

    2 Corinthians 3:6 who has qualified us to be ministers of a new covenant, not in a written code but in the Spirit; for the written code kills, but the Spirit gives life.
    Yours is too filled with traditions of men.

    Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

    Review:

    John 17:3 "thee [the Father] the Only True God"
    Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)


    We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (ćons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;
    Human tradition (4th Century CE)


    John 4:23 "the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth"
    Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)


    And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spake by the prophets.
    Human tradition (4th Century CE)

    Quote Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    When that Scripture says "no one on heaven or earth", God is excluded. Furthermore, there was someone who was worthy, God, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity:

    Rev 5:5 Then one of the elders said to me, “Weep not; lo, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.”
    Not until after that middle head died. So, again, God was not worthy until after God died.

    Yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    “Worthy art thou to take the scroll and to open its seals,
    for thou wast slain and by thy blood didst ransom men for God
    Exactly. God was not worthy until God died.

    Yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    That was my reaction when you said that the verse meant that God was not worthy. Really?
    I didn't. You are the one saying Jesus is God, not I.

    Either he was worthy or not? Was God worthy before he died or not? You say "not."

    Quote Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    Lol. What makes you the authority that something must take place before the resurrection. God did it this way and we accept it. Your opinion to the contrary matters not at all.
    It makes me able to judge the creation of an idol. For if this totem pole head was not worthy until after the resurrection, seems like this totem pole of yours is basically "worthless" and not of one substance.

    Quote Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    Interesting. God is love. The Father's love does not enable unity. The unity of the Three Divine Persons is a matter of fact.
    One that is never stated in the scriptures as comprising one "God."

    Quote Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    The Father loves the Son. The Son loves the Father. And the Holy Spirit is the love which the Father has for the Son and the Son has for the Father.
    This is why the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. Because love proceeds from the Father and the Son.

    Father is always supreme.
    Yet, still does not make three divine "persons" one true God.

    Quote Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    That is Catholic Doctrine.

    245 The apostolic faith concerning the Spirit was confessed by the second ecumenical council at Constantinople (381): "We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of life, who proceeds from the Father."71 By this confession, the Church recognizes the Father as "the source and origin of the whole divinity".72 But the eternal origin of the Spirit is not unconnected with the Son's origin: "The Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity, is God, one and equal with the Father and the Son, of the same substance and also of the same nature. . . Yet he is not called the Spirit of the Father alone,. . . but the Spirit of both the Father and the Son."73 The Creed of the Church from the Council of Constantinople confesses: "With the Father and the Son, he is worshipped and glorified."74
    And Jesus told us:

    John 4:23 "the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth"
    Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)

    Quote Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    With all due respect, what you get out of it is worthless on a Catholic forum.
    Except to point out the error.

    Quote Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    I don't gloss over any of Scripture. I simply understand it in accordance with the Sacred Tradition of Jesus Christ. I know you want to ignore that in order that you twist Scripture to your heart's content. But that is your problem, not ours:

    2 Peter 3:14 Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. 15 And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 speaking of this[a] as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability.
    2 Tim 4:

    1 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: 2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. 3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

    John 17:3 "thee [the Father] the Only True God"
    Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)


    We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (ćons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;
    Human tradition (4th Century CE)
    "You [the Father], the Only True God" -- Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)

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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    I am committed to the body of Christ. While I believe most everything the "church" I fellowship with teaches, I like to search the scriptures and see things for myself (think Berean..).

    It seems Catholics trust their church implicitly, even citing the Catechism as though it was God-breathed.

    And I certainly do not believe that the Catholic Church was the church started by Jesus Christ.

    But I understand that you do, so.....
    Apparently, you haven't searched the Scriptures enough . . .

    First of all - the Bereans weren't anti-Church or even distrustful of the Church.
    They were simply wary of counterfeit teachings by people claiming to be the Church.

    Secondly - The Bible says that we are SUPPOSED to trust the Church implicitly:

    2 Thess. 2:15
    Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, EITHER by an ORAL statement - OR by a letter of ours
    (the Church) .

    Matt 16:18-19
    And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
    I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever YOU
    (the Church) bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever YOU (the Church) loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

    Matt. 18:15-18
    "If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.
    If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
    If he refuses to listen to them, tell the CHURCH. If he refuses to listen even to the
    CHURCH, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
    Amen, I say to you, whatever YOU (the Church) bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever YOU
    (the Church) loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

    John 16:12-15
    “I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
    But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to ALL truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU
    (the Church) the things that are coming.
    He will glorify me, because he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU
    (the Church).
    Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU
    (the Church).

    John 20:21-23
    Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE
    (the Church) are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN (the Church) are retained.”

    Luke 10:16

    Whoever listens to YOU
    (the Church) listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU (the Church) rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."


    As for your rejection that the Catholic Church is the Church started by Jesus - it is the ONLY one that can trace itself back to the Apostles in an UNBROKEN line of succession.
    NONE of your Protestants can go back any further than the 16th century . . .

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    I'll never be a Catholic, CA. I'm confident that one day you won't be either. I realize that it will probably take the return of Jesus Christ for that to happen, but it will happen. All saved Catholics will come to know that much of what they believed was not true.

    Time will tell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    I'll never be a Catholic, CA. I'm confident that one day you won't be either. I realize that it will probably take the return of Jesus Christ for that to happen, but it will happen. All saved Catholics will come to know that much of what they believed was not true.

    Time will tell.
    Time will tell. I'm very confident that it is you who will regret the matter. And if you do make it, you'll be in Purgatory saying, "I should have listened to those guys." But if you don't, well, at least we tried to warn you. Here I'll try again:

    Hebrews 10:25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

    26 For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    Time will tell.
    Yep.

    I'm very confident that it is you who will regret the matter.
    I would expect nothing less. You're a committed Catholic.

    And if you do make it, you'll be in Purgatory saying, "I should have listened to those guys."
    There is no Purgatory. It is a fabricated doctrine of Catholicism.

    But if you don't, well, at least we tried to warn you. Here I'll try again:

    Hebrews 10:25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

    26 For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
    I believe those scripture. Your point?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    I'll never be a Catholic, CA. I'm confident that one day you won't be either. I realize that it will probably take the return of Jesus Christ for that to happen, but it will happen. All saved Catholics will come to know that much of what they believed was not true.

    Time will tell.
    I'm not trying to convert you - just expose you.
    Not everybody who goes to Heaven converts to Catholicism - but ALL those in Heaven are Catholic . . .

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