Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 19 of 19

Thread: Affordable Health Care for ALL? Yes.

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    6,334
    Thanks
    873
    Thanked 1,023 Times in 869 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by smoky View Post
    And the prices over seas are multiple times cheaper.
    Not really...taxes are multiple times higher in many European countries...in exchange for which you get "free" healthcare....but it isn't free, it's paid for via taxation. Nothing is more expensive than when the Gov't provides something for "free".

    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
    Generally the cost of living is lower too.
    meh...maybe...standard of living is also lower (depending on how you measure standard of living....)

    How would you propose to "eliminate the cost of medical school"?

    I'm assuming you'd have the Gov't pay? A Scholarship for Service type arraignment? I'm actually not opposed to that, but someone will still have to pay....and that means higher taxes on those that pay taxes....

    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
    Do we really want doctors who pass with a "c" grade?
    You already have that whether you know it or not...

    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
    ...Most specialists have their offices in big cities.
    Which makes perfect sense....they're "specialists"....they go to population concentrations since that particular problem is a smaller percentage of medical conditions overall.....

    BTW...one of the biggest ways to lower medical costs? Tort reform. Place caps on medical malpractice pay-outs. They can still be high, but they need to have a defined upper limit.
    “You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan
    "This is the issue of this election: Whether we believe in our capacity for self-government or whether we abandon the American revolution and confess that a little intellectual elite in a far-distant capitol can plan our lives for us better than we can plan them ourselves." Ronald Reagan (1964)

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Pondering For This Useful Post:

    smoky (04-21-2017)

  3. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Blue Ridge Mountains
    Posts
    9,271
    Thanks
    2,392
    Thanked 1,307 Times in 1,095 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pondering View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by smoky
    And the prices over seas are multiple times cheaper.
    Not really...taxes are multiple times higher in many European countries...in exchange for which you get "free" healthcare....but it isn't free, it's paid for via taxation. Nothing is more expensive than when the Gov't provides something for "free".
    So their government buys the meds at the U.S. price and sells them multiple times cheaper to the people . . .meaning over seas are paying the same freight that we are?

  4. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    lived in 5 states traveled extensively in Europe middle East and Asia.
    Posts
    14,864
    Thanks
    1,991
    Thanked 2,041 Times in 1,658 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    No actually they don't typically pay the same as US prices, with their bigger medical groups, they negotiate for prices and get them much lower. Some places like India negotiate to make their own generics sold locally only.
    Trump's obvious lies make it impossible to believe anything he says that might be true. His presidency is falling apart fast.

  5. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Blue Ridge Mountains
    Posts
    9,271
    Thanks
    2,392
    Thanked 1,307 Times in 1,095 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
    No actually they don't typically pay the same as US prices, with their bigger medical groups, they negotiate for prices and get them much lower. Some places like India negotiate to make their own generics sold locally only.
    Well, what's bigger than Medicare and Medicaid? Why don't they negotiate for prices?

  6. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    lived in 5 states traveled extensively in Europe middle East and Asia.
    Posts
    14,864
    Thanks
    1,991
    Thanked 2,041 Times in 1,658 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Big Pharma crammed it down the throat of congress not to allow those to negotiate for their drugs, remember they had one of the biggest lobby efforts ever. The VA does negotiate but that is another story.
    Trump's obvious lies make it impossible to believe anything he says that might be true. His presidency is falling apart fast.

  7. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    6,334
    Thanks
    873
    Thanked 1,023 Times in 869 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
    Big Pharma crammed it down the throat of congress not to allow those to negotiate for their drugs, remember they had one of the biggest lobby efforts ever. The VA does negotiate but that is another story.
    Or said more honestly, Obama and the Democrats sold out the American taxpayer to enrich themselves and their Big Pharma donors.
    “You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan
    "This is the issue of this election: Whether we believe in our capacity for self-government or whether we abandon the American revolution and confess that a little intellectual elite in a far-distant capitol can plan our lives for us better than we can plan them ourselves." Ronald Reagan (1964)

  8. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    WI USA
    Posts
    6,092
    Thanks
    1,900
    Thanked 873 Times in 722 Posts
    Blog Entries
    12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
    Big Pharma crammed it down the throat of congress not to allow those to negotiate for their drugs, remember they had one of the biggest lobby efforts ever. The VA does negotiate but that is another story.
    Quote Originally Posted by smoky View Post
    Well, what's bigger than Medicare and Medicaid? Why don't they negotiate for prices?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
    No actually they don't typically pay the same as US prices, with their bigger medical groups, they negotiate for prices and get them much lower. Some places like India negotiate to make their own generics sold locally only.
    Quote Originally Posted by smoky View Post
    So their government buys the meds at the U.S. price and sells them multiple times cheaper to the people . . .meaning over seas are paying the same freight that we are?
    One of Donald Trump's major campaign promises was that he'd undo this and fix it, and have the US gov't negotiate drug prices with the pharmaceutical companies.
    I fully support him in this, and I wish he'd get going on this instead of focusing on his stupid immigration policy and his wall, and repealing the Wall St reform law.
    Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!

    2 Cor 3 "11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."

    Certified Chalcedon Compliant
    Officially approved in 451

  9. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    WI USA
    Posts
    6,092
    Thanks
    1,900
    Thanked 873 Times in 722 Posts
    Blog Entries
    12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pondering View Post
    Or said more honestly, Obama and the Democrats sold out the American taxpayer to enrich themselves and their Big Pharma donors.
    Spoken like a true subscriber to Tea Party revisionist alternative history.

    For those actually interested in the history:
    Allowing Part D to negotiate drug prices is not a new idea: President Obama supported the repeal during his 2008 campaign and has included versions of the proposal in multiple budgets. Meanwhile, other government programs that purchase drugs have been able to lower drug costs through a variety of tactics. Medicaid prices are set by law at the lower end of a discounted price or the lowest price anyone is able to negotiate. The VA negotiates prices, receives mandatory rebates, and maintains a National Drug Formulary.

    So why doesn’t Medicare have the ability to control its drug costs? The short answer is politics.


    As noted above, from its creation and through Bill Clinton’s presidency, Medicare lacked a prescription-drug benefit. It was not until 2003, under President George W. Bush, that Congress added the Part D benefit, through which Medicare pays for seniors’ prescription drugs. The enactment followed a controversial House roll call vote, which Republicans held open for several hours as party leadership maneuvered to secure enough votes for passage. One bargaining chip to attract market-oriented Republican votes was the so-called “noninterference clause”—a provision drug manufacturers had a major role in writing and getting through Congress—which banned negotiations between Medicare and pharmaceutical companies on drug prices and prevented the government from developing its own formulary or pricing structure. Instead of CMS negotiating on Part D plans’ behalf, prescription drug plans compete for enrollees and negotiate directly with manufacturers.


    Part D was progress, but by most accounts it was not enough. Conspicuously absent from President Obama’s signature health reform efforts were any provisions directed at reducing the prices Medicare pays for drugs. The only salient feature of the ACA as it pertains to Part D was the statute’s closing of the “donut hole,” the out-of-pocket amount seniors pay for drugs when their spending exceeds the coverage level but falls short of the catastrophic level at which benefits resume. Closing the donut hole provides more seamless coverage, thereby preventing seniors from having to choose between medication and other needs, but it does not address pricing. Closing the donut hole may actually exacerbate the problem since some patients switched from expensive specialty drugs to generics or stopped taking drugs that may be overused upon reaching the coverage gap.


    Congress has taken no action to repeal the ban, and that seems unlikely to change. The pharmaceutical industry’s lobbying efforts topped $231 million last year; indeed, the industry has spent more on lobbying than any other industry since 1998. It seems unlikely that a newly elected President would start his or her administration by reigniting the fight with the pharmaceutical industry that previous presidents, of both parties, have lost.


    The existence of other, lesser-known laws on the books further complicates the issue. Any future president will have to deal with these laws for Medicare’s drug price control efforts to be successful. The most significant of these lesser-known legal provisions originated as CMS guidance implementing the MMA and was subsequently made law in the ACA. This provision requires Part D drug plans to give access to all or nearly all drugs on the market in six protected classes—ranging from anti-retroviral drugs to antidepressants—until CMS promulgates a regulation to change the designated classes. Although originally intended to discourage drug plans from discriminating against patients with certain conditions, such as patients with HIV, this restriction has limited drug plans’ negotiating power by reducing their ability not to cover drugs that are priced above their value. These two legal provisions—the ban to help the pharmaceutical industry and the protected classes to help patients—restrict what CMS can do to control drug prices.


    Recent attempts to make modest changes reflect the fierceness of the politics around this issue. In 2014, the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) tried to make progress with the protected-classes provision by proposing to create a process to remove some drugs from the protected list. That effort, a much less radical change than repealing the negotiations ban, floundered due to industry and consumer backlash.
    Celeste was correct. I commend Trump for making this an issue that he wants to address, and I hope he puts action behind his words. But given the fact that administrations of both parties have failed in the past, Trump's claim that he was going to succeed in fixing this may be just more evidence of his lack of knowledge, qualification, and integrity.
    Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!

    2 Cor 3 "11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."

    Certified Chalcedon Compliant
    Officially approved in 451

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Zathrus For This Useful Post:

    Celeste (04-22-2017)

  11. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    lived in 5 states traveled extensively in Europe middle East and Asia.
    Posts
    14,864
    Thanks
    1,991
    Thanked 2,041 Times in 1,658 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Yes I too will join in on the congratulations to Trump if and when he does such a thing, however I will not hold my breath.
    Trump's obvious lies make it impossible to believe anything he says that might be true. His presidency is falling apart fast.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •