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Thread: Why Jesus Didn't Stay Dead

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niyoe'es:ah View Post
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    None of the Old Testament's sacrifices were restored to life, and in ;point of fact, quite a few of them were incinerated. Pieces and parts of some were even set aside to be eaten as sustenance for the Levitical priests and their families.

    So, if the OT's sacrifices could obtain the mercy of God without bringing them back to life, why then wouldn't a dead Jesus be just as effective as a living Jesus?

    The problem with previous stay-dead modes of sacrifice is that they couldn't expunge the people's personnel files; and those files are on track to be reviewed at the great white throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15 where people will be thoroughly vetted for citizenship in the new cosmos depicted in the 21st chapter of Revelation.

    If the records show that certain people are essentially undesirable --i.e. capable of terrible things, especially dishonesty --then they will be denied immigration to the new heavens, the new earth, and the holy city.

    Christ's crucified body was restored to life in order to make it possible for God to expunge people's records.

    Rom 4:25 . . He was handed over for our transgressions, and was raised for our justification.

    The koiné Greek word for "justification" is dikaioo (dik-ah-yo'-o) which essentially means to regard as innocent.

    In other words; Christ's crucifixion was sufficient to obtain forgiveness for people's sins; but his crucifixion alone wasn't sufficient to make it possible for people to obtain an acquittal.

    An acquittal can be defined as exoneration; viz: an adjudication of innocence, which is normally granted when there is insufficient evidence to convict. In other words: by means of Christ's resurrection, God was able to cook the books so that it appears people never did anything bad. On the surface; this looks very unethical, but from God's perspective it's all on the up and up.

    This is a serious issue under the terms and conditions of the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. The covenant's sacrifices obtained forgiveness for the people, but the sacrifices did not, and could not, obtain them exoneration. No, a record of their disobedience remained on the books, hanging over their heads like a sword of Damocles. Out ahead, at the Great White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15, those books will be opened for review.

    Q: Don't Catholics obtain exoneration when they go to confession?

    A: The scope of the Roman church's reconciliatory process is somewhat limited. It's primarily designed for absolution (1John 1:9) i.e. while it forgives a sinner's debt to God's law, and cleanses what is sometimes called the stain of sin, it does nothing to expunge the sinner's record.

    Justification, on the other hand, as per the koiné Greek word dikaioo, completely deletes the offender's criminal history; i.e. dikaioo wipes their records so clean and efficiently that there is nothing left that can in any way be used to prove that the sinner has ever been anything less than 100% innocent.

    Now, the advantage of the kind of justification I'm talking about is that sinners need obtain it only once because from thence, God stops keeping records on them.

    2Cor 5:19 . .God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them

    The koiné Greek word translated "counting" is logizomai (log-id'-zom-ahee) which means to take an inventory.

    Rom 4:8 . . Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord does not record.

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    Because God doesn't need any spells or rituals or magical components and gestures to forgive you, nor can you force Him to do so with anything.

    He has no need of anyone's sacrifices or use for anyone's prayers.

    He is God.

    "The wages of sin is death."

    Jesus had no sin. God had no reason to keep him dead, and, being a righteous God, every reason to restore him to life.
    "You [the Father], the Only True God" -- Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)

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    Post Re: Why Jesus Didn't Stay Dead

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    Catholics expect to spend some time in a purgatory for so-called "lesser faults". However, with zero faults on the books to answer for, either lesser or greater, then there are no grounds for subjecting people to purgation.

    /
    Last edited by Niyoe'es:ah; 04-20-2017 at 07:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niyoe'es:ah View Post
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    Catholics expect to spend some time in a purgatory for so-called "lesser faults". However, with zero faults on the books to answer for, either lesser or greater, then there are no grounds for subjecting people to purgation.

    /
    You've been studying.

    1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:

    As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.


    II. HEAVEN

    1023 Those who die in God's grace and friendship and are perfectly purified live for ever with Christ. They are like God for ever, for they "see him as he is," face to face:598

    By virtue of our apostolic authority, we define the following: According to the general disposition of God, the souls of all the saints . . . and other faithful who died after receiving Christ's holy Baptism (provided they were not in need of purification when they died, . . . or, if they then did need or will need some purification, when they have been purified after death, . . .) already before they take up their bodies again and before the general judgment - and this since the Ascension of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ into heaven - have been, are and will be in heaven, in the heavenly Kingdom and celestial paradise with Christ, joined to the company of the holy angels. Since the Passion and death of our Lord Jesus Christ, these souls have seen and do see the divine essence with an intuitive vision, and even face to face, without the mediation of any creature.599

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    Post Re: Why Jesus Didn't Stay Dead

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    Quote Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire.
    The "elect" spoken of in CCC 1031 need not be concerned about a purifying fire seeing as how God keeps no records of their faults; neither their lesser nor their greater.

    2Cor 5:19 . .God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them

    The koiné Greek word translated "counting" is logizomai (log-id'-zom-ahee) which means to take an inventory.

    Rom 4:8 . . Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord does not record.

    Q: God is letting the elect slide?

    A: In a manner of speaking, yes, because Christ took the elect's persons, and their records, with him to the cross.

    Isa 53:6 . .We had all gone astray like sheep, all following our own way; but The Lord laid upon him the guilt of us all.

    Rom 4:25 . .He was handed over for our transgressions.

    Rom 6:3 . . Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

    Gal 2:20 . . I am crucified with Christ

    Col 3:2 . . For you have died, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

    Along with the benefit of Christ's crucifixion is the additional benefit of his resurrection.

    Rom 4:25 . . He was raised for our justification.

    The koiné Greek word for "justification" is dikaioo (dik-ah-yo'-o) which essentially means to regard as innocent, i.e. to acquit.

    The word in Rom 4:25 is grammatically singular. i.e. it is not like this:

    "He was raised for our justifications."

    In other words: the innocence made available by Christ's resurrection is a permanent stamp of approval.

    Heb 10:14 . . For by one offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

    "those who are sanctified" refers to the elect spoken of in CCC 1031, because the Greek word is hagiazo (hag-ee-ad'-zo) which essentially means to set something aside for God; i.e. consecrate and/or dedicate.

    I think it goes without saying that people "perfected for all time" by Christ's crucifixion and his resurrection, would be overdone by additional purification; especially when not even God himself can find something in the elect requiring heat treatment.

    Rom 8:33 . .Who will bring a charge against God’s chosen ones? It is God who acquits us.

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    Last edited by Niyoe'es:ah; 04-21-2017 at 07:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smoky View Post
    You are simply speaking of the consequences of sin, forgiveness is about guilt, not sin's consequences.
    As I clarified in post #7 . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niyoe'es:ah View Post
    -Catholics expect to spend some time in a purgatory for so-called "lesser faults". However, with zero faults on the books to answer for, either lesser or greater, then there are no grounds for subjecting people to purgation.
    Are you perfect?
    Because - if you're not, Rev. 21:27 says you're not getting into Heaven.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smoky View Post
    Yes. . .Lewis' faith was based in human reason.
    And Scriptural truth . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niyoe'es:ah View Post
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    [font=verdana]The "elect" spoken of in CCC 1031
    You mean the ones in CCC 1023.

    need not be concerned about a purifying fire seeing as how God keeps no records of their faults; neither their lesser nor their greater.
    On the contrary. You accept those verses and reject these.

    Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

    1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

    Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

    Matthew 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

    Whereas, we accept them all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    You mean the ones in CCC 1023.
    No, I mean the elect spoken of in CCC 1031

    CCC 1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:

    As for certain lesser faults, yada, yada, yada, etc. . . . . . . .

    /

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agape View Post
    Are you perfect? Because - if you're not, Rev. 21:27 says you're not getting into Heaven.
    First things first, and the first order of business to which you need to attend is getting God to expunge the exhaustive record of your behavior that He's been keeping.

    If you fail to get that record cleared of all your faults, both the lesser faults and the greater faults, then everything about you-- past, present, and future, plus everything you did in private when you thought nobody was looking --is going come out and be taken into consideration the day you stand before the great white throne to be vetted for admission into the holy city Jerusalem depicted in the 21st chapter of Revelation.

    If it can be shown from the record that you are basically undesirable for the holy city Jerusalem, then you will be barred entry and transferred to the lake of brimstone for summary execution by a mode of death akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.

    In the year 1520, Leo X posited in his Bull of Exurge Domine that purgatory's inmates are incapable of committing new sins. Well; that's all fine and good, but the one thing he failed to take into consideration is the inmates' records. Even if 100% of an inmate's sins have been forgiven, cleansed, and/or pardoned they will still end up in brimstone if the record of their sins is still on the books.

    Rev 20:11-12 . . I saw a large white throne and the one who was sitting on it. The earth and the sky fled from His presence and there was no place for them. I saw the dead, the great and the lowly, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. The dead were judged according to their deeds, by what was written in the scrolls.

    /

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