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Thread: Single payer healthcare

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
    Unlike certain other members here, I know that Obama never held the idea of unlimited power. He knew he could not do that no matter how much he might have thought it was best. That is why the ACA was so convoluted, to walk the thin line between what he wanted and what was possible. Lets not be coy here, the entire ACA was built around the single person policy, everyone who signed up for such a policy, was getting a special case of a single person policy. Many people including myself felt that it was unsupportable in the long run. If you bothered to notice, the ACA did nothing to affect those already within a group policy (usually based upon corporate based polices.)

    Does anyone anywhere know about how the founding fathers felt about the healthcare insurance industry? No, of course not, it did not exist at that time and therefore those founding fathers could never have anticipated those needs and therefore said nothing about it.

    The entire claims about restricting the federal government on such an issue is absurd. That issue has long ago been decided (remember the civil war?) and not in favor of states rights. We don't live in some confederation of states with the states being the source of power, nor do we live in some anarchy where individuals are the source of power either. Power exists only an accumulation and unified use of power. Power exists to be use as in "the whole" not in tiny little parts.

    The entire claims about restricting the federal government on such an issue is absurd. That issue has long ago been decided (remember the civil war?) and not in favor of states rights. We don't live in some confederation of states with the states being the source of power, nor do we live in some anarchy where individuals are the source of power either. Power exists only an accumulation and unified use of power. Power exists to be use as in "the whole" not in tiny little parts.
    Sorry but the issue was settled long before the civil war. the Law of the Land declares unambiguously that anything the constitution does not grant teh federal govt. to do- is restricted to teh states or the individual's. Have we followed the Law? No FDR usurped much federal authority and that started a big trend that both sides have violated.

    It is as simple as this- we either have lawe or we do not. The left would howl like crazy if the right passes things they hate and vice versa. (though it seems only the right is more interested in the Constitution and even that is just pockets)

    The Constitution allows for single payer- if we amend the Constitution. Just having some judges come up with some fanciful interpretation is foolish. Just look at roe v. Wade. over 55 million babies killed because a SCOTUS judge found a right to kill unborn in teh "illuminations of the penumbras" of the constitution.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
    Let's get things straight, the majority of all VA clinics work fine without huge lines or waiting periods. Truth is there are a couple of very bad VA offices and they make the entire system look bad, the truth of the matter is that veterans are very happy overall with the VA system.

    Even so, Rene is correct, the medical care delivery system we have in this country does not respond well to "free market" forces. There is simply no competition among hospitals especially in the less than metropolitan areas.
    I cannot call a system that allows over 300 people die waiting to be seen by a doctor a good system.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
    Let's get things straight, the majority of all VA clinics work fine without huge lines or waiting periods. Truth is there are a couple of very bad VA offices and they make the entire system look bad, the truth of the matter is that veterans are very happy overall with the VA system.
    Please cite your sources. 2014 polling show most veterans had trouble accessing care

    I'll agree that most are happy with the care they receive once they get seen...but what % is acceptable for a "guaranteed" service? You said a "couple"...you sure it's only two?

    How many VA hospitals are there? why?

    Why not run it like the GI Bill. That program has been hugely successful helping veterans complete college or vocational training without having the Federal Gov't run hundreds of colleges and trade schools....could not the VA health system work the same way?
    “You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan
    "This is the issue of this election: Whether we believe in our capacity for self-government or whether we abandon the American revolution and confess that a little intellectual elite in a far-distant capitol can plan our lives for us better than we can plan them ourselves." Ronald Reagan (1964)

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    To think that a "free market" system applies in the health care business is to ignore the fact that those in need of medical care most often do not have the time nor resources to check out the competetion. Getting another medical opinion, the only slight resemblence to a "free market" costs money. It is not like going to the next car dealer to get a better offer. The "customer" is not free at all by virtue of the service needed. The "customer" in the field of health care was never free. The only free person was the doctor and they got rich fast.

    But Rene is right. The health care problem in the US started long ago and was perpetuated because the doctors keep screaming "free market" meaning they wanted their 6 figure income, maybe by now 7, and fought to keep it. They reaped that with insurance needs that they can hardly afford. The "free" customers decided they wanted a piece of that pie too.

    This was clear to me when I moved to Europe which is not "socialized medicine" everywhere, btw. Germany, for example, started a general health care system way back in the 19th century when costs were, of course, low. It requires everyone to have insurance helping the "customer" and limits what fees the doctors get paid. Make no mistake, the doctors in Germany make a lot of money but not as much as in the US. Education to be a doctor is virtually free and used to be totally free. So they have no debts but they don't make a killing. They are rich but not super rich as compared to others. They were under no dillusion that health care is a free market. When one is taken to the hospital, they cannot shop around for a better hospital. Sometimes one can choose but typically one cannot. This is what other nations recognized a long time ago. But then the doctors did not lobby to keep their incomes up.
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

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