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Thread: Single payer healthcare

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    Default Single payer healthcare

    VOICES-Only in America do we have politicians running every two years on a platform of repealing whatever is the current healthcare bill. And Republicans seem hell bent on passing something even worse than what we have now, doing it so fast that it will have a direct negative impact on the pocketbooks of their own voters before the next election.

    Every one of the other 33 countries considered "developed" has some form of universal health coverage, most prominently single payer. Only in America, the richest country of them all, do we not have that. Only in America do politicians not have the best interests of the well-being of its people at heart.

    In Norway, they have had single payer for a full century. They like it just fine thank you, and they are not at all interested in junking it, precisely because there, as well as in all the other countries that have it, it has proven to be the best way to spend the healthcare dollars available to its society.

    Only in America do we have the two major political parties operating as tag teams to see who can come up with the healthcare plan that people hate the most.

    Kathleen Sebelius was asked a pertinent question on Meet the Press recently. If the Republicans have their way and their plan fails as well, and the Democrats return to power, would they be able to revive so-called Obamacare? Her answer was no, because the insurance providers will have already fled the system.

    We say good riddance to them. Why do we need middleman insurance companies raking off 30% in administrative fees – companies that just jump ship if they don’t get what they want? We say make the existing Medicare system the basic insurance provider for everyone so that everyone has at least basic coverage.

    The Republicans are fond of talking about not having the federal government "dictate" to the people in their districts. It's their big talking point, and has been since Reagan. ("I'm from the government
    and I'm the boogieman.")

    What they really mean is the medical services corporations don't want to have to deal with anyone with actual negotiating leverage, so that they can dictate to us we will pay for our healthcare -- like $600 for an Epipen with less than $1 worth of medicine in it.

    The political reality is that one way or another Obamacare is going down, and it's not coming back. So seriously, how many bad health care bills do we have to repeal before we get single payer?

    Congress is making a show of asking their constituents what they think of their plan. We say tell them.

    Demand Medicare for All NOW.
    http://www.citywatchla.com/index.php...thcare-for-all

    The poorest and weakest negotiating position for anyone is to have a single person policy, yet the romance of the "rugged individual" drives people to seek out these policies as though there is something noble about having them. People will argue that they dont need xyz coverage in their healthcare package and looking at it within the single person policy that makes sense, because it does tend to drive the prices higher for each type of coverage. But that thinking is entirely due to their seeking out those single person policies. However if everyone were a member of some group they would not need to pick and choose the coverage just to keep the prices down. For all its good intentions, Obamacare was merely an extension of the single person policy. It was destined for failure for that simple reason.
    Trump's obvious lies make it impossible to believe anything he says that might be true. His presidency is falling apart fast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
    http://www.citywatchla.com/index.php...thcare-for-all

    The poorest and weakest negotiating position for anyone is to have a single person policy, yet the romance of the "rugged individual" drives people to seek out these policies as though there is something noble about having them. People will argue that they dont need xyz coverage in their healthcare package and looking at it within the single person policy that makes sense, because it does tend to drive the prices higher for each type of coverage. But that thinking is entirely due to their seeking out those single person policies. However if everyone were a member of some group they would not need to pick and choose the coverage just to keep the prices down. For all its good intentions, Obamacare was merely an extension of the single person policy. It was destined for failure for that simple reason.
    Well all the arguments in the world means nothing! The Law of the Land (the Constitution) forbids the federal govt. to get involved in anything that is not specifically enumerated int the Constitution. IOW teh states may sert up single payer health care, but the federal govt. cannot by law.


    10th amendment

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

    If "we the people" want single payer health care, they need to amend the constitution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
    http://www.citywatchla.com/index.php...thcare-for-all

    The poorest and weakest negotiating position for anyone is to have a single person policy, yet the romance of the "rugged individual" drives people to seek out these policies as though there is something noble about having them. People will argue that they dont need xyz coverage in their healthcare package and looking at it within the single person policy that makes sense, because it does tend to drive the prices higher for each type of coverage. But that thinking is entirely due to their seeking out those single person policies. However if everyone were a member of some group they would not need to pick and choose the coverage just to keep the prices down. For all its good intentions, Obamacare was merely an extension of the single person policy. It was destined for failure for that simple reason.

    If single payer healthcare was / is so great, why didn't Obama and all his democrat comrades pass it while he was still in office ... or why didn't he do it ALONE, by executive order? He basically told immigration police to IGNORE existing law, and let all who wanted into the U.S. to come on in!

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    Unlike certain other members here, I know that Obama never held the idea of unlimited power. He knew he could not do that no matter how much he might have thought it was best. That is why the ACA was so convoluted, to walk the thin line between what he wanted and what was possible. Lets not be coy here, the entire ACA was built around the single person policy, everyone who signed up for such a policy, was getting a special case of a single person policy. Many people including myself felt that it was unsupportable in the long run. If you bothered to notice, the ACA did nothing to affect those already within a group policy (usually based upon corporate based polices.)

    Does anyone anywhere know about how the founding fathers felt about the healthcare insurance industry? No, of course not, it did not exist at that time and therefore those founding fathers could never have anticipated those needs and therefore said nothing about it.

    The entire claims about restricting the federal government on such an issue is absurd. That issue has long ago been decided (remember the civil war?) and not in favor of states rights. We don't live in some confederation of states with the states being the source of power, nor do we live in some anarchy where individuals are the source of power either. Power exists only an accumulation and unified use of power. Power exists to be use as in "the whole" not in tiny little parts.
    Trump's obvious lies make it impossible to believe anything he says that might be true. His presidency is falling apart fast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste View Post
    Unlike certain other members here, I know that Obama never held the idea of unlimited power. He knew he could not do that no matter how much he might have thought it was best. That is why the ACA was so convoluted, to walk the thin line between what he wanted and what was possible. Lets not be coy here, the entire ACA was built around the single person policy, everyone who signed up for such a policy, was getting a special case of a single person policy. Many people including myself felt that it was unsupportable in the long run. If you bothered to notice, the ACA did nothing to affect those already within a group policy (usually based upon corporate based polices.)

    Does anyone anywhere know about how the founding fathers felt about the healthcare insurance industry? No, of course not, it did not exist at that time and therefore those founding fathers could never have anticipated those needs and therefore said nothing about it.

    The entire claims about restricting the federal government on such an issue is absurd. That issue has long ago been decided (remember the civil war?) and not in favor of states rights. We don't live in some confederation of states with the states being the source of power, nor do we live in some anarchy where individuals are the source of power either. Power exists only an accumulation and unified use of power. Power exists to be use as in "the whole" not in tiny little parts.

    In the USA, the VA (Veterans Administration) is a true SINGLE PAYER government-run healthcare system ... and it's track record is ABYSMAL, with RIDICULOUSLY HIGH death rates, while US Veterans wait on a waiting list, sometimes for MONTHS, or even YEARS! As a model, it is a perfect example of what NOT TO DO!
    Last edited by solver; 04-11-2017 at 06:40 PM.

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    VA, Medicaid, Indian Health Service...if you think any of those program serve people well, then you should be for single-payer. If you're sane, then you know those are poor programs...poorly run, generally deliver poor outcomes and no one neither the providers or the patients like it....
    “You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan
    "This is the issue of this election: Whether we believe in our capacity for self-government or whether we abandon the American revolution and confess that a little intellectual elite in a far-distant capitol can plan our lives for us better than we can plan them ourselves." Ronald Reagan (1964)

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    Yet with a "dismal" record there still is an endless need for medical service to those Americans who have served their country patriotically. This need has not been met, and it exists, with the supposed "free market" options nor has there been an exodus of people to the "free market" options that have been available to veterans. Without a government based option there would be no "free market" options to solve American health care crisis as been shown by several decades of such market solutions not stopping this crisis. One wonders just how much longer we have to entertain the mythology that "free market" is nothing more than a distribution system of resources in a society instead of solution focused activity..."free market" means we are free not to get services.
    Theology is the fine art of making simple facts complex assertions...

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    Let's get things straight, the majority of all VA clinics work fine without huge lines or waiting periods. Truth is there are a couple of very bad VA offices and they make the entire system look bad, the truth of the matter is that veterans are very happy overall with the VA system.

    Even so, Rene is correct, the medical care delivery system we have in this country does not respond well to "free market" forces. There is simply no competition among hospitals especially in the less than metropolitan areas.
    Trump's obvious lies make it impossible to believe anything he says that might be true. His presidency is falling apart fast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rene View Post
    Yet with a "dismal" record there still is an endless need for medical service to those Americans who have served their country patriotically. This need has not been met, and it exists, with the supposed "free market" options nor has there been an exodus of people to the "free market" options that have been available to veterans. Without a government based option there would be no "free market" options to solve American health care crisis as been shown by several decades of such market solutions not stopping this crisis. One wonders just how much longer we have to entertain the mythology that "free market" is nothing more than a distribution system of resources in a society instead of solution focused activity..."free market" means we are free not to get services.

    Obama wasted almost eight full years on the ACA, which is falling apart as we watch it. Providers are exiting right and left, which results in NO SHARED RISKS, so costs skyrocket! But give Trump time ... at least HALF as much time as Obama used, to TOTALLY SCREW UP America's healthcare systems, and the system will then be the best that it can possibly be.

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    Indeed American health care is a mess but to blame Obamacare for this mess is a gross misunderstanding of our system. The problems arose decades before Obamacare and will most likely continue with or without it. Either way we are all going to have difficulties if we rely on some sort of mythical beast called "free market" to solve a decades old problem.
    Theology is the fine art of making simple facts complex assertions...

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