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Thread: What is Isaiah 1:17 saying would please God?

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    Question What is Isaiah 1:17 saying would please God?

    Here's the verse:

    ISV
    Isa 1:17 Learn to practice what is good; seek justice, alleviate oppression, defend orphans in court, and plead the widow's case.
    It seems that Yehovah is fed up with sacrifices and wants the Jews to live in a way that pleases him. But is there a particular way he wants it done? How did he want the Jews to do these:

    "seek justice"
    "alleviate oppression"
    "defend orphans in court"
    "plead the widows' case"

    Is he speaking specifically to the rulers/leaders? Or were the people to do something about these social issues?

    Are these also required of NT leaders? Of NT saints in general?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDydKwmrHFo
    Last edited by Ruminator; 04-10-2017 at 03:34 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruminator View Post
    Here's the verse:



    It seems that Yehovah is fed up with sacrifices and wants the Jews to live in a way that pleases him. But is there a particular way he wants it done? How did he want the Jews to do these:

    "seek justice"
    "alleviate oppression"
    "defend orphans in court"
    "plead the widows' case"

    Is he speaking specifically to the rulers/leaders? Or were the people to do something about these social issues?

    Are these also required of NT leaders? Of NT saints in general?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDydKwmrHFo
    Well prophets spoke to teh whole nation so it is safe to assume everyone was involved.

    These are carried over to the NT. But the most important part to remember is this: If someone has not trusted in the death and resurrection of Jesus for their sin debt, it matters noty how nice they are- they are lost and are unknown by God!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nolidad View Post
    Well prophets spoke to teh whole nation so it is safe to assume everyone was involved.

    These are carried over to the NT. But the most important part to remember is this: If someone has not trusted in the death and resurrection of Jesus for their sin debt, it matters noty how nice they are- they are lost and are unknown by God!
    In Acts we have an example "social ills" account:

    Act_6:1* And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.
    We also have Paul collecting an offering for the apparently beleaguered Jerusalemites.

    But I do find that Isaiah seems to tie social justice to forgiveness of sins:

    Isa 1:10* Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.*
    Isa 1:11* To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.*
    Isa 1:12* When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?*
    Isa 1:13* Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.*
    Isa 1:14* Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.*
    Isa 1:15* And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.*
    Isa 1:16* Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;*
    Isa 1:17* Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.*
    Isa 1:18* Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.*
    Isa 1:19* If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:*
    Isa 1:20* But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.*
    James comes to mind as perhaps echoing the passage:

    Jas 1:26* If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.*
    Jas 1:27* Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.*
    Do these passages suggest that the believer or the leadership must address social ills or their religion will not be pleasing to God, regardless of their alleged faith?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruminator View Post
    In Acts we have an example "social ills" account:



    We also have Paul collecting an offering for the apparently beleaguered Jerusalemites.

    But I do find that Isaiah seems to tie social justice to forgiveness of sins:



    James comes to mind as perhaps echoing the passage:



    Do these passages suggest that the believer or the leadership must address social ills or their religion will not be pleasing to God, regardless of their alleged faith?
    We are not called to politics but to glorify the Lord. In addressing problems it is always on a personal and not governmental level. while the church should have an influence on how govt. functions, we must be careful. Helping the poor is a personal and church command- not a command for the world's systems. With that being said, if govts. do follow biblical principles, their nations can know blessing from God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nolidad View Post
    We are not called to politics but to glorify the Lord. In addressing problems it is always on a personal and not governmental level. while the church should have an influence on how govt. functions, we must be careful. Helping the poor is a personal and church command- not a command for the world's systems. With that being said, if govts. do follow biblical principles, their nations can know blessing from God.
    Thanks for your response, nolidad. So would it be fair to say that both Isaiah and James would expect that a true assembly (IE: the Corinthian assembly, or Ephesians assembly or the Roanoke, VA assembly would implement "programs" to address the needs of the poor among them, such as we see in Acts 6 and that failure to step up would be a good indication that these assemblies lacked genuine faith, and that their sins were not forgiven?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruminator View Post
    Thanks for your response, nolidad. So would it be fair to say that both Isaiah and James would expect that a true assembly (IE: the Corinthian assembly, or Ephesians assembly or the Roanoke, VA assembly would implement "programs" to address the needs of the poor among them, such as we see in Acts 6 and that failure to step up would be a good indication that these assemblies lacked genuine faith, and that their sins were not forgiven?
    Well teh Bible does not go so far as to say that they lack genuine faith or that their sins were not forgiven.

    Our sins are forgiven solely based on the one time act of faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus. If perfection were the standard for salvation- I guess only three people are going to heaven (the three herew who have declared they ceased from sinning the moment they go saved.) Not!

    I will say that churches that do not care for their poor and try find find a way to reach out to the lost poor in the community they are in (if they have the means) are being disobedient to the call of the Lord and are not being blessed as they could be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nolidad View Post
    ...I will say that churches that do not care for their poor and try find find a way to reach out to the lost poor in the community they are in (if they have the means) are being disobedient to the call of the Lord and are not being blessed as they could be.
    Okay, but is that what Isaiah and James are saying?

    Also, I remembered these relevant passages:

    Mat 7:19* Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.*
    Mat 7:20* Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

    1Jn 3:16* Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.*
    1Jn 3:17* But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?*
    1Jn 3:18* My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.*

    Mat 25:34* Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:*
    Mat 25:35* For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:*
    Mat 25:36* Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.*
    Mat 25:37* Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?*
    Mat 25:38* When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?*
    Mat 25:39* Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?*
    Mat 25:40* And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.*
    Mat 25:41* Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:*
    Mat 25:42* For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:*
    Mat 25:43* I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.*
    Mat 25:44* Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?*
    Mat 25:45* Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.*
    Mat 25:46* And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.*

    Psa_41:1* To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. Blessed is he that considereth the poor: the LORD will deliver him in time of trouble.

    Pro_29:7* The righteous considereth the cause of the poor: but the wicked regardeth not to know it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruminator View Post
    Here's the verse:



    It seems that Yehovah is fed up with sacrifices and wants the Jews to live in a way that pleases him. But is there a particular way he wants it done? How did he want the Jews to do these:

    "seek justice"
    "alleviate oppression"
    "defend orphans in court"
    "plead the widows' case"

    Is he speaking specifically to the rulers/leaders? Or were the people to do something about these social issues?

    Are these also required of NT leaders? Of NT saints in general?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDydKwmrHFo
    The Christians were the ones who fought to end slavery in the UK. They fought for the reasons you state above. Christians have established orphanages in India where the Hindus couldn't care less about these children. Dr. Martin Luther King fought to end oppression of a segment of society and establish justice. The Christians have been doing this for centuries. It is what the church does.
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruminator View Post
    Okay, but is that what Isaiah and James are saying?

    Also, I remembered these relevant passages:
    We are saved by faith without works, but saving faith will produce
    godly works!

    Your Matthew quotes are eschatological and involve a different time frame. In the last days only believers will clothe the 144,000 or feed them, for it will bve a death sentence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nolidad View Post
    We are saved by faith without works, but saving faith will produce godly works!
    Okay, well that gives the fruit inspectors something to go by.

    Quote Originally Posted by nolidad View Post
    Your Matthew quotes are eschatological and involve a different time frame. In the last days only believers will clothe the 144,000 or feed them, for it will bve a death sentence.
    [/quote]

    So is Isaiah talking about social ills in general or strictly about within the Assemblies? In other words, will Jesus be a hungry sinner or only a hungry saint? Basically I'm asking, "Who is my neighbor?":

    Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
    Luk 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
    Luk 10:29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
    Luk 10:30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
    Luk 10:31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
    Luk 10:32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
    Luk 10:33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
    Luk 10:34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
    Luk 10:35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
    Luk 10:36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
    Luk 10:37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
    Last edited by Ruminator; 04-14-2017 at 03:14 PM.
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