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Thread: What is the best way for Christians to share their Good News?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    This is false.
    It is true. He reads everything you write.
    I have never said "no one is expected to be without sin". I have said, and believe, that all men sin.
    That is cagey. You think all men continue to sin and can never stop sinning.


    1 John 1:
    8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    The same John who said

    There are more.[/quote] There is more...

    "If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth." You claim darkness is always there and we can't help it.
    There are verses that say all men sin (present tense).
    Show me the verses that say all men will always sin and no one can be free from sin.

    "You should pay your taxes." What happens if you don't pay your taxes, Dottie? Is it a "nice to have" not to be thrown in jail?
    The law does not say "should" pay as if it is a good thing to do. Maybe this is the problem You do not understand the difference between law/commandment and should or ought. Oddly though, the strongest word you use to obeying God is "should." Not very strong.
    While we can certainly avoid sinning much of the time, there are times we all fail. This includes Philip2, MM501, and you.
    There we go again. Light on sin. Sinning is called merely "failing." Judy called it "flubbing up" on the level with forgetting to buy milk. "OH well no big deal that you sinned, just a fail or a flub up." Where did any of the apostles said they fail?
    You think it's a personal attack that you referred to yourself and your state of sin/righteousness?
    Absolutly because I DID NOT. You falsely accuse me of this to comfort yourself. You lie about me making me out to be someone I never said. Reminds me very much of the attacks Jesus faced when he preached obedience to God and righteousness.
    Dottie, sometimes I think your brain gets ahead of what you're typing. Some of the things you say do not make sense.
    Another personal attack. Again reminds me of what they said about Jesus. They thought he was crazy at times.
    That's a flat lie.
    No, you did it again here. You tell others that they only "should" not sin, but and the "but" is loud and always there, no one can ever be free from sin (sin stronger than the blood of Jesus) which is making light of sin people do. If a Christian is stuggling with temptation to sin, a sin that is very pleasurable, you are the preacher to listen to.
    Your problem (and Philip2, and MM501) is not understanding what being free from sin means.
    Means one does not sin. One cannot be free from smoking and smoke only a pack a day telling himself that he "should" stop.
    See above. People should pay taxes. People should get saved. There are serious repercussions if people do not do those things, particularly the second.
    The laws of the land do not say that people should do something. A requirement is more than a "should" which is merely good advise. They MUST pay taxes, not should.
    You are not. You intentionally twist what people say and throw it back in their face to suit your own purposes.
    No, I do not. I take the words and apply them to life. You and Judy are extremely light on sinning. You accept it as the norm. Those are not your words but that is the view your words continually express. It is what people do who think. Maybe there aren't that many who take the words you say and think about them. You want them confined to the exact words like Taikoo. She demands no thought except exact quotes word for word. If people allow themselves to be so taught, then they can turn off their minds.

    I have not lied about you and my teaching on sin is not lax.
    Yes you have lied about me. I never wrote about my own righteousness as being without sin. Never. You have more than once talked to me as though I did. This is a lie. And your teaching on sin is very lax. It is just a "should" and you chose other words previously that demonstrate equally a "no big deal" attitude. No one in the Bible talks about sin as a "should not do." Do you know what verbs they use with sin as the noun?
    I wish we could get along better, Dottie.
    You need to stop attacking me personally. That would help. I never said I was more righteous than anyone nor said I was righteous period. That is an attack on my character.

    Shroom, I would be willing but you need to stop falsely accusing me and it would help if you use the words that God uses regarding sin, that is DO NOT, not "should not." I have an aversion to sin and teaching that makes sin no big deal. It is a really big deal to the heart of God (and those who are the victims of another man's sin.)
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

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    Shroom, even if your theology allows you to go light on sin, you ought to stop teaching others to go light on not sinning.
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

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    Jesus was obedient to God unto death. Can any human today be "obedient" unto God even unto death?

    The blood of innocent Jesus is what washes away our sins and the sins of the world. If not, how can our sins be cleansed?

    Life is in the blood. Jesus gave His life as a ransom for all. Receiving salvation is dependent upon repentance, accepting, receiving.


    The blood of animals could not accomplish God's redemption plan. The blood of the most perfect lamb (Jesus Christ) is what it took.


    David was a man after God's own heart (said God) - David committed adultery. That was David's act of sin. Where does that say God is an adulterer?

    I have read the Old Testament several times. I don't need a suggestion to read it again.

    So once again in reference to the OP, in order to others to hear, receive, accept - what is the best way to spread the Good News?
    "The mind is like a parachute; it functions only when it is open." Coe

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    Quote Originally Posted by MM501 View Post
    Sounds like you are saying the wages of sin used to be death.
    No, still is. But do you understand what the gift of God is?

    Rom. 6:
    23) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmldn2 View Post
    Jesus was obedient to God unto death. Can any human today be "obedient" unto God even unto death?

    The blood of innocent Jesus is what washes away our sins and the sins of the world. If not, how can our sins be cleansed?

    Life is in the blood. Jesus gave His life as a ransom for all. Receiving salvation is dependent upon repentance, accepting, receiving.


    The blood of animals could not accomplish God's redemption plan. The blood of the most perfect lamb (Jesus Christ) is what it took.


    David was a man after God's own heart (said God) - David committed adultery. That was David's act of sin. Where does that say God is an adulterer?

    I have read the Old Testament several times. I don't need a suggestion to read it again.

    So once again in reference to the OP, in order to others to hear, receive, accept - what is the best way to spread the Good News?
    You live it.
    "You [the Father], the Only True God" -- Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    It is true. He reads everything you write.
    I said "Let us all know when you've arrived at sinlessness, Dottie."

    You said I would say that to Jesus Christ. I did not, and will not ever say that to him. Show me where I wrote that to Jesus Christ.

    That is cagey. You think all men continue to sin and can never stop sinning.
    In this life, that is true.

    "If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth." You claim darkness is always there and we can't help it.
    I claim that if we claim we no longer sin we are deceived and the truth is not in us.

    Show me the verses that say all men will always sin
    Again, See Rom 3 and 7.

    and no one can be free from sin.
    We are free from the consequences of sin, which is permanent death. If it is possible to never sin again in this life, Jesus never would have told us to ask for forgiveness. John never would have told us what to do when we do sin. Paul would never have explained why he did things he did not want to do (sinned).

    The law does not say "should" pay as if it is a good thing to do. Maybe this is the problem You do not understand the difference between law/commandment and should or ought. Oddly though, the strongest word you use to obeying God is "should." Not very strong.
    Do you think we should obey God? I do.

    There we go again. Light on sin. Sinning is called merely "failing." Judy called it "flubbing up" on the level with forgetting to buy milk.
    Where is "failing" or "flubbing up" on the level of forgetting to buy milk?

    When it comes to obeying God, failing or flubbing up is sinning.

    "OH well no big deal that you sinned, just a fail or a flub up."
    When it comes to obeying God, failing or flubbing up is a big deal. Christians should strive not to sin.

    Where did any of the apostles said they fail?
    When it comes to obeying God, the word fail is to sin. We know without a doubt that Paul and Peter sinned, and John tells us what to do when we do sin.

    Absolutly because I DID NOT. You falsely accuse me of this to comfort yourself. You lie about me making me out to be someone I never said. Reminds me very much of the attacks Jesus faced when he preached obedience to God and righteousness.
    Another personal attack. Again reminds me of what they said about Jesus. They thought he was crazy at times.
    Saying that at times you think faster than you type is not a personal attack.

    No, you did it again here. You tell others that they only "should" not sin, but and the "but" is loud and always there, no one can ever be free from sin (sin stronger than the blood of Jesus) which is making light of sin people do. If a Christian is stuggling with temptation to sin, a sin that is very pleasurable, you are the preacher to listen to.
    I would do my best to help the person stop sinning. What would you do?

    Means one does not sin.
    That's the problem. That is not what it means. If that's what it means, then all men fail, because all men sin.

    One cannot be free from smoking and smoke only a pack a day telling himself that he "should" stop.
    Not a valid comparison.

    No, I do not. I take the words and apply them to life. You and Judy are extremely light on sinning. You accept it as the norm.
    The norm in this life is that people will sin. Everyone sins. God knows this. Jesus Christ knows this. The bible states this. If you're not deceived, you know this.

    Yes you have lied about me.
    I have not.

    And your teaching on sin is very lax. It is just a "should" and you chose other words previously that demonstrate equally a "no big deal" attitude. No one in the Bible talks about sin as a "should not do." Do you know what verbs they use with sin as the noun?
    1 Tim 5:13) And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.

    Titus 1:11) Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

    Heb 2:1) Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.

    James 3:10) Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

    2 Pet 3:11) Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

    You need to stop attacking me personally. That would help.
    Says the pot to the kettle.

    I never said I was more righteous than anyone nor said I was righteous period. That is an attack on my character.
    It's not always about you, Dottie.

    Shroom, I would be willing but you need to stop falsely accusing me and it would help if you use the words that God uses regarding sin, that is DO NOT, not "should not."
    See the verses above.

    I have an aversion to sin and teaching that makes sin no big deal.
    Sin is a huge deal. Christians should strive not to sin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Shroom, even if your theology allows you to go light on sin
    It doesn't.
    you ought to stop teaching others to go light on not sinning.
    I don't.

    (I see you used the word "ought"....)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yehushuan View Post
    I'd certainly feel better had they used a dash, as in to take-away. In Greek it is a single word, G851 (to remove) and I provide the LINK to the Liddell Scott Lexicon - click on LSJ.
    Certainly an interesting link.....but I don't think I'll be delving into that discipline anytime soon. It certainly is something to do; and I'm pleased that you have/are into it or capable in that regard.

    Sometimes it's hard to express certain concepts in English because the "action-view" isn't representative. (Maybe "mind set" is the better term.) And as I've harped on before, the NKJV, the NASB, and YLT; all can easily be shown to have a translation error in Eph. 6:17, which is why I can't rely on any English translation.
    Now that is interesting and noteworthy. I was not aware of it and that explains why you see fit to study in Greek.

    The verb form in Heb. 10:4 is an infinitive (e.g. to walk, to run, to sit, etc.), so even the "New" King James adds in the word "could". Most translators follow the herd and have a herd mentality. (Guess you could say I roll my own.)

    I still like "remove" as the best gloss for English. Then again, I would note the following snippet from Liddell:

    3. folld. by μή c. inf., prevent, hinder from doing,

    In the infinitive with a negative particle (G102) we would see the aktionsart as "hinder from doing" ... So an extrapolated rendering would be "An impossibility it is for blood of bulls and of goats to prevent-(one)-from-doing sin." It may yield forgiveness (by some unfathomable divine rational of physics - think "entanglement") but the author of Hebrews certainly felt such wouldn't address the root cause of sin.
    I don't see any problem with your view at all. Whether the actual intent of the original writer is to establish that the blood of bulls and goats can't take away sins, or prevent a person from sinning in the future....both seem obvious enough and so the need for distinction isn't tremendous; for me anyway. If one were attempting to establish a doctrine....then perhaps it would be more important.

    To be honest, I've avoided hunting with my son-in-law precisely because I do not yet wish to get close to the visceral experience of draining the blood in the sacrifice of "dressing" the carcass. Not that I'm squeamish, but I don't wish to unleash any (how would I say this) primal powers or energies until I think I could manage it. (And yes, please consider the source - ME.)
    Totally get it.

    Ahh... as I said... some unfathomable divine rational of physics. I believe I suggested you read "The Chronicles of Amber". I shall once again entreat you to do so.
    I weren't among the worst of book readers; I would have had it done by now. I will definitely make note of the recommendation.

    It doesn't, it never did. There is a crack way down in the foundation of modern day Christianity, and I'm not sure any post would be sufficient to address it. It is not the punishment of Jesus that saves, but it was his Obedience that does.

    Yehu
    Right....well, as you hinted earlier....the waters are muddied as we could also offer up some additional views. Not that I'm into such a thing at this point in time.....but yeah. The bible also claims that the remission is in the blood, and also in the life that was raised. So, with regard to the precise mechanisms of redemption/remission/forgiveness (for those who wish to argue such a thing), like so many other if not all biblical doctrines, it's kind of a "take your pick" situation.

    Perhaps someone else will provide you a more interesting and thought provoking counter-point than I did. :]
    For when nothing can be as it is, then whatever is turns into nothing. Yehushuan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    Perhaps someone else will provide you a more interesting and thought provoking counter-point than I did. :]
    Not at all Phillip, our conversation was quite enjoyable.
    "Everybody thinks they're doing the right thing." - Gordon Anke
    (One of wisest men I've known.)

    Current ignore list: JimD, De Maria, Agape, smoky


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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    Certainly an interesting link.....but I don't think I'll be delving into that discipline anytime soon. It certainly is something to do; and I'm pleased that you have/are into it or capable in that regard.



    Now that is interesting and noteworthy. I was not aware of it and that explains why you see fit to study in Greek.



    I don't see any problem with your view at all. Whether the actual intent of the original writer is to establish that the blood of bulls and goats can't take away sins, or prevent a person from sinning in the future....both seem obvious enough and so the need for distinction isn't tremendous; for me anyway. If one were attempting to establish a doctrine....then perhaps it would be more important.



    Totally get it.



    I weren't among the worst of book readers; I would have had it done by now. I will definitely make note of the recommendation.



    Right....well, as you hinted earlier....the waters are muddied as we could also offer up some additional views. Not that I'm into such a thing at this point in time.....but yeah. The bible also claims that the remission is in the blood, and also in the life that was raised. So, with regard to the precise mechanisms of redemption/remission/forgiveness (for those who wish to argue such a thing), like so many other if not all biblical doctrines, it's kind of a "take your pick" situation.

    Perhaps someone else will provide you a more interesting and thought provoking counter-point than I did. :]
    There is a basic concept involved which is, your life is your time. The time you spend giving/working/providing for your family and neighbor is giving/loving others as you give/love yourself. To the extent you do this you are giving/loving God, you know, the greatest commandment and the second. You can do this daily as Jesus did and some may do it very quickly as He did on the cross or a soldier, policeman or fireman etc., may do in their line of duty. The blood of bulls and goats connect to this concept in that they represented the man's time/life he spent raising and caring for them and also represented the time/ life Christ was to give so that we could by having faith in this way He provided to eternal life. Hope this makes sense as it was difficult to try to explain but just thought I would throw it out there for free, and no it's not about earning your salvation or a do nothing faith

    PS: As far as I can tell blood, life, time are all interconnected in this concept either literally or representatively.
    Sincerely, JimD

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