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Thread: What is the best way for Christians to share their Good News?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    You have dug your own grave, unless you turn from such unbelief.
    I'm quite confident in my relationship with God through His Son, Jesus Christ.
    "The mind is like a parachute; it functions only when it is open." Coe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    Jesus was speaking to OT men, still in the flesh.
    After His crucifixion, and our partaking in it, we are able to live without sin, as we are "in Him".

    My God forgave my past sins, and in gratitude to Him I will not offend Him again.
    Where is the gratitude of the unrepentant?
    In Psalm 51, when David was REPENTING FOR SIN, he wrote, "Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me."

    Do you see it? The same spirit that was in Jesus was in David - so, I don't see how you can make the theological claim that OT men were still in the flesh. At least one of those OT men was actually called God's friend, by God himself.

    In any event, I guess you think David is in hell now then because he was filled with the Spirit but still sinned?
    For when nothing can be as it is, then whatever is turns into nothing. Yehushuan

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmldn2 View Post
    Fixing to go teach my weekly dance class so do not have the time to respond today.
    Ahhh... Well now, teaching others to sin. 'splains a lot !! ;^)
    "Everybody thinks they're doing the right thing." - Gordon Anke
    (One of wisest men I've known.)

    Current ignore list: JimD, De Maria, Agape, smoky


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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    In Psalm 51, when David was REPENTING FOR SIN, he wrote, "Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me."

    Do you see it? The same spirit that was in Jesus was in David - so, I don't see how you can make the theological claim that OT men were still in the flesh.
    One might postulate that all men were OT men (being in the flesh) until the New Covenant was purchased and established. Of course that would also mean Jesus was an OT man "in the flesh". However, we've not quite defined what "in the flesh" means.

    The Old Covenant is based upon Human Willpower - the flesh - being used as the primary, if not the only, mechanism by which one could Obey the Law. If I find the urge "in my flesh" to steal, or hurt, or commit murder, then the only tool available back then (and the only tool available to the non-believer now) was to hear the Law and through a combination of fear and human willpower (with a sprinkle of "trying-to-be-good") man up and try to overcome those urges and obey (a process yielding limited results). So even though Jesus was "in the flesh" it is written that He overcame by such an Obedience Unto Death. And being the only OT man-in-the-flesh ever to actually accomplish such could establish a New Covenant by which we as believers no longer need to rely upon our own personal human willpower to obey; a resource unreliable at best and ultimately bound to fail since Free Will is broken.

    Just something to consider,
    Yehu
    "Everybody thinks they're doing the right thing." - Gordon Anke
    (One of wisest men I've known.)

    Current ignore list: JimD, De Maria, Agape, smoky


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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    Think about it.
    By inference, you state that we will never cease from stumbling/sinning.
    Exactly. As long as Satan is around, that is the way it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    Jesus is our advocate at the start of a new life without sin.
    He isn't a box of bandages for ongoing disobedience.
    Guess Peter lost his faith and has been condemned for his actions that Paul confronted him with. So sad. He had the keys of heaven and all, and now is just another faithless curr.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    If you sin, you manifest that you have no faith.
    It is written..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Corinthians 10:13)
    Where is your faith in that?
    Right here:

    1 John 1:
    8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
    9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

    What I see from you so far, is disdain for verses 8 and 10.

    I have faith all three verses are the word of God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    The King James Version says this..."Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!"
    Jesus is talking about something brought by another person.
    How can you use this verse to infer we will fall?
    I guess Satan does not count to you. That's OK. I'll stick with 1 John 1:9 and be weary of those who go against verses 8 & 10.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    Your aspiration to bring condemnation to all men has led you to miss that James is confronting a "too many chefs" syndrome.
    Too many leaders with conflicting POVs.
    Salty and fresh water from the same spigot, if you will.
    James also mentions those who are perfect.
    Why do you gravitate to the messed up?
    My "aspirations" is to point out you are in direct violation of scriptures. You say you have no sin. I know that is false. Whether you say such from deception or ignorance, Jesus will judge.

    You, on the other hand, wish to condemn the world by your own false belief, which Jesus has already set free to those who put faith in him.

    You are a stumbling block.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    Which begs the question...What is darkness?
    It is written..."The way of the wicked is as darkness:" (Pro 4:19)
    You can't say you have fellowship with Him if you are a sinner.
    Interesting that you should mention that. Reminds me of why to watch out for 8/10 violators.

    10 Then it happened that as Jesus was reclining at the table in the house, behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and were dining with Jesus and His disciples.
    11 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to His disciples, “Why is your Teacher eating with the tax collectors and sinners?”
    12 But when Jesus heard this, He said, “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick.
    13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire compassion, and not sacrifice,’ for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”


    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    Here are some that Can say they have no sin; as All their sin has been cleansed!

    Perfectly reasonable description of those who sin, while saying they have fellowship with Him.

    More men who CAN say they have no sin!
    ALL their unrighteousness has been cleansed!
    As I said before, guess Peter lost his faith and has been condemned for his actions that Paul confronted him with. So sad. He had the keys of heaven and all, and now is just another faithless curr.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    Some, in John's time, were asserting that there was no such thing as sin.
    I certainly admit that I was one of the worst of sinners.
    But through God's gifts of repentance, and baptism, and the Holy Ghost, I am a new creature now.
    Thanks be to God!
    No. You are still the same. Just blinded by self righteousness, and now a stumbling block to others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    I am.
    I walk in the light, where there is no sin.
    Tell that to Satan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    You could, if you would have one, final, permanent, turn from sin.
    Get baptized in Jesus' name and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    When you walk out of the baptismal water, say out loud that you have no sin, and continue on, in the light.
    I did. So I cannot deny I will be a sinner until this corruptible flesh is behind me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    How many men did he kill after that, in direct opposition to God's commandment?
    Don't use the infidels as your models.
    Use Jesus as your example.
    2 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son,
    3 and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come.
    4 Again he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.”’
    5 But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business,
    6 while the rest seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and killed them.
    7 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.
    8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy.
    9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’
    10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests.
    11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment.
    12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless.
    13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
    14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”


    1 And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.
    2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
    3 Give us day by day our daily bread.
    4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

    But, to you, the Lord's prayer is meaningless and useless and promotes sin, right?

    8/10.

    The 13th Warrior showed more attention to 1 John than you appear to. He knew he was a sinner and put faith in God to forgive him.

    And, his God is the God of David, Moses, Abraham AND Jesus.

    So, when you do something not quite right, what excuse do you use, since you "don't sin"?

    You "begged the question" What is Darkness?

    Self deception.

    Because God sees all.
    "You [the Father], the Only True God" -- Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)

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    We Christians have 2 natures; flesh (carnal) and new man (regenerated) but Paul explained (splained) quite accurately how the two natures constantly conflicted with one another.
    "The mind is like a parachute; it functions only when it is open." Coe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yehushuan View Post
    Ahhh... Well now, teaching others to sin. 'splains a lot !! ;^)
    Only if one considers dancing a sin.


    David danced for God. Quite a good job of it too.
    "The mind is like a parachute; it functions only when it is open." Coe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yehushuan View Post
    Not ignoring all the other meaningful parts of your post; I find your verb tenses here to be intriguing. "If one can live each day without sinning, then the law would have ..." The word "can" is present tense, however this was mixed with "would have" indicating an action applied to a past time frame.

    No, I'm not playing language cop. But I'd like to re-frame the aktionsart. "If one could have lived each day without sinning, then the law would have sufficed and there would have been no need for Jesus Christ." However, doesn't the gospel contain a key component of Transformation so that we CAN, right now, live each day without sinning?

    I have found many that only preach a gospel of repentance and forgiveness. An eternal forgiveness because that thing (hupostatis - substance) which causes one to sin just cannot be eradicated and killed... so people keep sinning and merely rely upon the daily mercies of God for perpetual forgiveness. I think Phillip2 is preaching a gospel of Transformation wherein sin is in remission, and so indeed one most certainly CAN live a day called today wherein one does not sin. None. Nada. Nary a sin on one's chinny chin chin.

    So would we champion a gospel of perpetual forgiveness? Or do we champion a gospel of transformation into a sinless life?

    This sort of brings me back to my earlier thoughts wherein I had considered answering your OP with the question ("Which Good News?") But for the moment you may consider that rhetorical since the second post was James asking the very same thing.

    Yehu

    PS:
    But that's NOT what the Bible says. The Bible does NOT say, quote- We all fall short of righteousness - unquote.

    (Rom 3:23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

    Paul did not write the words "come short". He wrote the Single word, hustereo (G5302). In short, G5302 means "in need of" or "is-deficient-in". "For all have sinned and are deficient of the glory of God."

    Are Christians STILL deficient of the glory of God?

    I'm not trying to be difficult here, but I think Most if not ALL of the Christian I've met cobble up bad doctrine because they lack precision to read EXACTLY what was written. As it stands, then, you've failed to provide adequate scripture with sufficient reason to convince anyone that your doctrine is true. (I'm not saying it isn't. I'm saying your proof as presented is inadequate. You will have to do better for those who understand things the way Philip2 does.)

    One is either a slave or not. One can no more be a half slave than half pregnant.

    Not ignoring all the other meaningful parts of your post; I find your verb tenses here to be intriguing. "If one can live each day without sinning, then the law would have ..." The word "can" is present tense, however this was mixed with "would have" indicating an action applied to a past time frame.

    Duly noted.

    However, doesn't the gospel contain a key component of Transformation so that we CAN, right now, live each day without sinning?

    Of course, the bible presents the "Way" for this transformation but it also (refer back to Paul) clearly identifies as humans with that "fleshly" nature that we sometimes cannot obtain that transformation in totality. Consider the word "sin" which can mean any action or non-action we commit which is against God's character/commandments. God does not consider Great sin vs tiny little sin. All He sees is "sin." Commission/Omission - This should not deter us from striving to be "sin free."


    I have found many that only preach a gospel of repentance and forgiveness. An eternal forgiveness because that thing (hupostatis - substance) which causes one to sin just cannot be eradicated and killed... so people keep sinning and merely rely upon the daily mercies of God for perpetual forgiveness.
    Well I take God at His word that once saved always saved (yes some proclaim this as a doctrine from hell) and I believe in the eternal forgiveness of our sins through the precious blood of Jesus Christ. However, this does not delete the fact that once we are aware we have sinned, we need to go to our Lord and ask for forgiveness (as in the Lord's Prayer).


    I think Phillip2 is preaching a gospel of Transformation wherein sin is in remission, and so indeed one most certainly CAN live a day called today wherein one does not sin. None. Nada. Nary a sin on one's chinny chin chin.

    Philip2 may preach that but I do not accept it. Transformation for we humans is a daily, constant process. We will never reach perfection this side of heaven; yes there are those who believe they already have, I know.


    So would we champion a gospel of perpetual forgiveness? Or do we champion a gospel of transformation into a sinless life?

    One must decide for themselves what to call Good News and what to champion. I call eternal forgiveness from our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as eternal; albeit we still need to transform on a daily basis. One call call that daily transformation a "maturing" in the life of a Christian.


    But that's NOT what the Bible says. The Bible does NOT say, quote- We all fall short of righteousness - unquote.

    Checkmate. True. My bad.


    (Rom 3:23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    Paul did not write the words "come short". He wrote the Single word, hustereo (G5302). In short, G5302 means "in need of" or "is-deficient-in". "For all have sinned and are deficient of the glory of God."

    True dat.


    Are Christians STILL deficient of the glory of God?
    Christians are covered with the grace of God which helps make up for their falling short, being deficient of total glory of God.

    As it stands, then, you've failed to provide adequate scripture with sufficient reason to convince anyone that your doctrine is true. (I'm not saying it isn't. I'm saying your proof as presented is inadequate. You will have to do better for those who understand things the way Philip2 does.)
    Perhaps I have "splained" inadequately but once again I never try and "convince" anyone of what I believe but simply explain what I personally believe and accept. This is an "every man for himself" thingie.

    One is either a slave or not. One can no more be a half slave than half pregnant.

    I don't know about this one. One can be a slave to something but not "enslaved" to it. IMHO. I'm reading a book now about a slave girl who explains how she is a "slave" yet her spirit or her essence is still free. The body can be held captive but the spirit can remain unconquered.
    "The mind is like a parachute; it functions only when it is open." Coe

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmldn2 View Post
    I'm quite confident in my relationship with God through His Son, Jesus Christ.
    It is written..."If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:" (1 John 1:6)
    The Light awaits your submission.
    "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." (Ja 5:20)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    In Psalm 51, when David was REPENTING FOR SIN, he wrote, "Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me."
    Do you see it? The same spirit that was in Jesus was in David - so, I don't see how you can make the theological claim that OT men were still in the flesh. At least one of those OT men was actually called God's friend, by God himself.
    In any event, I guess you think David is in hell now then because he was filled with the Spirit but still sinned?
    No man of the OT had been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-6)
    Romans 8 makes the differences between OT and NT pretty clear.

    David, and the rest of the OT men, had atonements for their sins.
    Bulls and goats etc.
    "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." (Ja 5:20)

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