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Thread: What is the best way for Christians to share their Good News?

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    In the context of biblical exegesis, you raise good points and ask fair questions.

    NKJV - "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins."
    NASB - "For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. "
    YLT - "for it is impossible for blood of bulls and goats to take away sins."

    It seems a rather straightforward and consistent rendering to me.....the blood of animals doesn't take away sins. To take away, in one manner, to remove, or to remove from sight.
    I'd certainly feel better had they used a dash, as in to take-away. In Greek it is a single word, G851 (to remove) and I provide the LINK to the Liddell Scott Lexicon - click on LSJ.

    Sometimes it's hard to express certain concepts in English because the "action-view" isn't representative. (Maybe "mind set" is the better term.) And as I've harped on before, the NKJV, the NASB, and YLT; all can easily be shown to have a translation error in Eph. 6:17, which is why I can't rely on any English translation. The verb form in Heb. 10:4 is an infinitive (e.g. to walk, to run, to sit, etc.), so even the "New" King James adds in the word "could". Most translators follow the herd and have a herd mentality. (Guess you could say I roll my own.)

    I still like "remove" as the best gloss for English. Then again, I would note the following snippet from Liddell:

    3. folld. by μή c. inf., prevent, hinder from doing,

    In the infinitive with a negative particle (G102) we would see the aktionsart as "hinder from doing" ... So an extrapolated rendering would be "An impossibility it is for blood of bulls and of goats to prevent-(one)-from-doing sin." It may yield forgiveness (by some unfathomable divine rational of physics - think "entanglement") but the author of Hebrews certainly felt such wouldn't address the root cause of sin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    Digging deeper there is a verse about the sacrifice itself representing the cleansing, or easing of one's own conscience. The acknowledgment of a wrong done, and the attempt to make some restitution. I feel better because I did something about the wrong action that I have performed. I attempted to make it right. As opposed to.....I did what I did and I could care less about it, and I'll probably do it again. So there's that.
    To be honest, I've avoided hunting with my son-in-law precisely because I do not yet wish to get close to the visceral experience of draining the blood in the sacrifice of "dressing" the carcass. Not that I'm squeamish, but I don't wish to unleash any (how would I say this) primal powers or energies until I think I could manage it. (And yes, please consider the source - ME.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    Then, there is the verse which states....."Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone? Jesus obviously showing that this religious viewpoint was incorrect as he himself forgave sins. And other verses establish that this is the case, not only does God forgive sins, but people do as well.

    John 20:23 - "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.

    Luke 17:3 - "Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him."
    Yes indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    In any event, to the point of animals......it raises another question pertaining to Hebrews 10. How can the blood of an innocent animal remove the sins a human has committed? I don't see how such a thing makes any sense whatsoever. The animal has no knowledge of the event, and therefore only represents the cost (economic) of attempting to make restitution for a wrong done.
    Ahh... as I said... some unfathomable divine rational of physics. I believe I suggested you read "The Chronicles of Amber". I shall once again entreat you to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    Which brings forth an even larger question.....how can the punishment of the innocent cleanse the guilty?
    It doesn't, it never did. There is a crack way down in the foundation of modern day Christianity, and I'm not sure any post would be sufficient to address it. It is not the punishment of Jesus that saves, but it was his Obedience that does.

    Yehu
    "Everybody thinks they're doing the right thing." - Gordon Anke

    (One of wisest men I've known. RIP: March 5th 2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    You already have done so.
    This is false.

    THen repeat it instead of "no one is expected to be without sin" excusing it.
    I have never said "no one is expected to be without sin". I have said, and believe, that all men sin.

    No New Testament writer said any such thing.
    1 John 1:
    8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    There are more.

    It is speaking of the past, not the future.
    There are verses that say all men sin (present tense).

    I don't. This is why you do, essentially.
    This is false.

    You have made it a matter one only "should" do which means it is a nice to have.
    "You should pay your taxes." What happens if you don't pay your taxes, Dottie? Is it a "nice to have" not to be thrown in jail?

    "You should get saved". What happens if you don't get saved? Is it a "nice to have" not to be thrown into gehenna?

    Downgraded it from how it is described by the New Testament to being tolerated as it cannot be avoided.
    While we can certainly avoid sinning much of the time, there are times we all fail. This includes Philip2, MM501, and you.

    I refered to myself and my own state of sin/righteousness in my writings. That was a personal attack. Reminded me of the response of the Pharisees to Jesus. They hated it that he talked of righteousness.
    You think it's a personal attack that you referred to yourself and your state of sin/righteousness?

    Dottie, sometimes I think your brain gets ahead of what you're typing. Some of the things you say do not make sense.

    I love those words of Jesus.
    I do not bellieve you.
    That's your right, but you're dead wrong.

    You teach others to set aside the commands of God
    That's a flat lie.

    as no one can be free from sin.
    Your problem (and Philip2, and MM501) is not understanding what being free from sin means.

    You call not sinning something the Christian only should do. No force in those words.
    See above.

    The commands are not merely something a believer "should do." They are more than a "should."
    See above. People should pay taxes. People should get saved. There are serious repercussions if people do not do those things, particularly the second.

    I am.
    You are not. You intentionally twist what people say and throw it back in their face to suit your own purposes.

    Please try to stop attacking me as a person saying lies about me in order to support your lax teaching on sin.
    I have not lied about you and my teaching on sin is not lax.

    I wish we could get along better, Dottie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    David was not born of holy spirit as we are today (since Pentecost), but he did have holy spirit from God.

    1 Sam 16:
    13) Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.
    I dunno, Shroom, sounds like a whole lot of semantic gamesmanship to me.
    "Everybody thinks they're doing the right thing." - Gordon Anke

    (One of wisest men I've known. RIP: March 5th 2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    If sin is the intentional commission of a wrong, a violation of one's conscience, then I'd say that a sinner is one who sins.
    Ahhh.. An Aristotelian.

    Most modern Christians are Platonist.
    "Everybody thinks they're doing the right thing." - Gordon Anke

    (One of wisest men I've known. RIP: March 5th 2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yehushuan View Post
    I dunno, Shroom, sounds like a whole lot of semantic gamesmanship to me.
    Spin it as you see fit, Yehu.

    The point is that David did have holy spirit upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    While we can certainly avoid sinning much of the time, there are times we all fail. This includes Philip2, MM501, and you.


    Go ahead. I know you want to...
    "Everybody thinks they're doing the right thing." - Gordon Anke

    (One of wisest men I've known. RIP: March 5th 2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    Spin it as you see fit, Yehu.

    The point is that David did have holy spirit upon him.
    "In" ... "upon" ... how would you describe the difference?
    "Everybody thinks they're doing the right thing." - Gordon Anke

    (One of wisest men I've known. RIP: March 5th 2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    I do my best, and am improving.

    Meanwhile, you're still deceived, and the truth is not in you.
    Jesus said that those who commit iniquity are the servants of sin, (John 8:34), and that no man can serve two masters: loving one and hating the other. (Matt 6:24)

    Jesus said the "truth" would free me from committing sin. (John 8:32-34)
    He was right, and He can free you too.
    Last edited by Philip2; 04-20-2017 at 08:45 PM.
    "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." (Ja 5:20)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Same source for this theology as that one.
    That brought on a smile.
    But seriously speaking, could the serpent have been any more convincing than shroom and Judy's "Christianity-based" reassurances of "ye shall not surely die" in your disobedience?

    ... and doesn't eternal security in heaven with God (no matter what you do) even go beyond "ye shall not surely die" but enters into the realm of "and ye shall be as gods"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    I believe that the wages of sin is death. I also believe in Jesus Christ, he is my Lord and savior, and I will be saved from permanent death (Rom 10:9).
    Sounds like you are saying the wages of sin used to be death.

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