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Thread: What is the best way for Christians to share their Good News?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    The scripture explains how this works and I have discussed it with you, several times I think, what a short memory you have or do you just enjoy mud slinging the word of God. Careful Philip. It's no wonder you find the scripture so confusing.
    Way to point that crooked finger of love Jim. Oh yeah.
    For when nothing can be as it is, then whatever is turns into nothing. Yehushuan

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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    No, that is not what I am saying.

    Rom 6:
    1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
    2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

    And I do not believe the devil's lie, I believe that the wages of sin is death. I also believe in Jesus Christ, he is my Lord and savior, and I will be saved from permanent death (Rom 10:9). I will reap the rewards for how I lived my life, for the things done in the body, whether good or bad (2 Cor 5:10). I strive not to sin, but I also understand the reason why I still occasionally do, because of the sin that dwells in me (Rom 7).
    If Jesus was your lord, you would obey Him...all the time.
    "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." (Ja 5:20)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    If Jesus was your lord, you would obey Him...all the time.
    I do my best, and am improving.

    Meanwhile, you're still deceived, and the truth is not in you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    Hebrews 10:4 "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins."
    Hi Philip,

    Oddly enough, we're now in very interesting waters. Does "take away" mean "forgive" or "remove"? (And for that matter, remove what?)

    The New Testament texts seem murky on providing a consistent across the board functional definition of the word "sin". Is "sin" a reference to specific identifiable actions? (e.g. "He stole my wallet.") Or is Sin the internal spiritual urge that compels (or causes, or allows) for one to commit such acts? Is one a sinner because he sins? Or does one sin because he is a sinner?

    To be honest, a rational, thoughtful man might just up and burn the whole damn book for being too vague (which it is). However. That said, the writer of Hebrews was most likely referring to "sins" as a causality of specific actions where the phrase "take away" would be seen as "cause to end". It is most certainly not possible for the blood of bulls and goats to end (or remove / 'take-away') that thing inside a person which causes him to do those things which could be identified as sins.

    While I don't have the time to dig through the Greek and present an exhaustive explanation right now, I recall that Hebrews 10:4 might better be rendered... "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could end sinning." (Carrying the implication that something else Could "end sinning".)

    Kindly,
    Yehu
    "Everybody thinks they're doing the right thing." - Gordon Anke

    (One of wisest men I've known. RIP: March 5th 2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmldn2 View Post
    I was a former Baptist. Yes, they believe dancing, drinking, smoking, almost anything is sin, except "eating all you want and getting big as a barn).
    I rejoice you have been freed from this.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmldn2 View Post
    Yes, David committed adultery. And God said David was a man after His own Heart.
    So adultery is in God's heart?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmldn2 View Post
    All this goes to show that no one can live a sin-free life. David was a pleasure to God but David was also a human being.
    David was not baptized in fire, with the Spirit of the living God living within. If David were our example and our Lord, nay even if Moses were our example and our Lord, there would have been no need for Jesus to Obey Unto Death and provide for a New Covenant.

    Yehushuan

    PS: And yes, there ARE two Gospels. One preaching forgiveness by the shedding of blood from bulls and goats, and another preaching forgiveness by God because we ask and repent (no blood at all) having faith in Jesus' teaching that God is our Father in Heaven and loves us (cf. Mat. 5 through 7).

    PPS: Oh and not to forget that we are to forgive others.

    PPPS: And there is no need for you to thank me that I give you wonderful opportunities to practice the PPS. ;^)
    "Everybody thinks they're doing the right thing." - Gordon Anke

    (One of wisest men I've known. RIP: March 5th 2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yehushuan View Post
    Hi Philip,

    Oddly enough, we're now in very interesting waters. Does "take away" mean "forgive" or "remove"? (And for that matter, remove what?)

    The New Testament texts seem murky on providing a consistent across the board functional definition of the word "sin". Is "sin" a reference to specific identifiable actions? (e.g. "He stole my wallet.") Or is Sin the internal spiritual urge that compels (or causes, or allows) for one to commit such acts? Is one a sinner because he sins? Or does one sin because he is a sinner?

    To be honest, a rational, thoughtful man might just up and burn the whole damn book for being too vague (which it is). However. That said, the writer of Hebrews was most likely referring to "sins" as a causality of specific actions where the phrase "take away" would be seen as "cause to end". It is most certainly not possible for the blood of bulls and goats to end (or remove / 'take-away') that thing inside a person which causes him to do those things which could be identified as sins.

    While I don't have the time to dig through the Greek and present an exhaustive explanation right now, I recall that Hebrews 10:4 might better be rendered... "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could end sinning." (Carrying the implication that something else Could "end sinning".)

    Kindly,
    Yehu
    In the context of biblical exegesis, you raise good points and ask fair questions.

    NKJV - "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins."
    NASB - "For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. "
    YLT - "for it is impossible for blood of bulls and goats to take away sins."

    It seems a rather straightforward and consistent rendering to me.....the blood of animals doesn't take away sins. To take away, in one manner, to remove, or to remove from sight. Digging deeper there is a verse about the sacrifice itself representing the cleansing, or easing of one's own conscience. The acknowledgment of a wrong done, and the attempt to make some restitution. I feel better because I did something about the wrong action that I have performed. I attempted to make it right. As opposed to.....I did what I did and I could care less about it, and I'll probably do it again. So there's that.

    Then, there is the verse which states....."Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone? Jesus obviously showing that this religious viewpoint was incorrect as he himself forgave sins. And other verses establish that this is the case, not only does God forgive sins, but people do as well.

    John 20:23 - "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.

    Luke 17:3 - "Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him."

    In any event, to the point of animals......it raises another question pertaining to Hebrews 10. How can the blood of an innocent animal remove the sins a human has committed? I don't see how such a thing makes any sense whatsoever. The animal has no knowledge of the event, and therefore only represents the cost (economic) of attempting to make restitution for a wrong done.

    Which brings forth an even larger question.....how can the punishment of the innocent cleanse the guilty?

    "
    For when nothing can be as it is, then whatever is turns into nothing. Yehushuan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yehushuan View Post
    David was not baptized in fire, with the Spirit of the living God living within.
    David was not born of holy spirit as we are today (since Pentecost), but he did have holy spirit from God.

    1 Sam 16:
    13) Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yehushuan View Post

    The New Testament texts seem murky on providing a consistent across the board functional definition of the word "sin". Is "sin" a reference to specific identifiable actions? (e.g. "He stole my wallet.") Or is Sin the internal spiritual urge that compels (or causes, or allows) for one to commit such acts? Is one a sinner because he sins? Or does one sin because he is a sinner?

    Yehu
    Great question. First let's define sin. What is it and how is it defined?

    If sin is the intentional commission of a wrong, a violation of one's conscience, then I'd say that a sinner is one who sins. A person can certainly be born and commit no sin. Many infants live only a short time and then die.

    They have committed no sin.
    For when nothing can be as it is, then whatever is turns into nothing. Yehushuan

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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    No, I would not have said that to Jesus Christ.
    You already have done so.
    I love that verse.
    THen repeat it instead of "no one is expected to be without sin" excusing it. No New Testament writer said any such thing.
    What do you think of that verse, Dottie?
    It is speaking of the past, not the future.
    I would not do that if I were you.
    I don't. This is why you do, essentially.
    What? Also, I have never said "everyone does so no sweat". Christians should strive NOT to sin. Now that I have said many times.
    You have made it a matter one only "should" do which means it is a nice to have. Downgraded it from how it is described by the New Testament to being tolerated as it cannot be avoided.
    Also, what untruths did I make up about what you said?
    I refered to myself and my own state of sin/righteousness in my writings. That was a personal attack. Reminded me of the response of the Pharisees to Jesus. They hated it that he talked of righteousness.
    I love those words of Jesus.
    I do not bellieve you. You teach others to set aside the commands of God as no one can be free from sin. You call not sinning something the Christian only should do. No force in those words. The commands are not merely something a believer "should do." They are more than a "should."
    Please try and be more accurate in what you post.
    I am. Please try to stop attacking me as a person saying lies about me in order to support your lax teaching on sin.
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmldn2 View Post
    God called David a man after His own heart. God never changed in that view.
    How do you know? God annointed and supported Saul before David and the Holy Spirit left Saul because of his behaviour. You should read the Old Testament how God CHANGED his view on people who sinned.
    David committed adultery (and suffered the consequences from it) and asked God to forgive him. God did.
    He suffered from that sin as did his children. The consequences of sin were still with him. They were not removed.
    God's love for David did not change. God's love for any human being does not change, whether or not one is perfect (an impossibility) or imperfect.
    No one is saying God's love is conditional. His promises are conditional. His blessings are conditional. His love is not. Try to keep that straight.
    All actions have consequences; good and bad.
    Is this supposed to be new information?
    God does not love us according to how we "perform" God first loved us even when we did not acknowledge Him or followed Him.
    True but God does not walk with us or bless us without us "performing" according to His standard.
    All behavior matters - even those who see themselves on a higher plane than others. God looks at the heart.
    God looks at the behaviour which shows the heart. One cannot have a heart that is devoted to God where the behaviour does not demonstrate this. What God is not fooled by are those who tell themselves they love God whose behaviour does not demonstrate this. TElling yourself "God looks at the heart" ought to make one ask God to "search the heart and see if there be any wicked ways in me" instead of thinking God thinks we have good hearts when out of those hearts come choices God hates.
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

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