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Thread: WT- Jesus Created "Everything Else"

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnB View Post
    Are you a JW?
    No, I am not a JW.

    If I claim that Jesus did not exist before his birth but only in the mind of his God, that should settle the issue that I am not one of them.

  2. #52
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    The Jehovah's Witness organization has religious-movements/jehovahs-witnesses/col-116-17-all-other-things-were-created-him altered the biblical text to suit to its theological presupposition that Jesus is a created thing.1 This is why the new world translation adds the word "other" four times in Col. 1:16-17 even though it is not in the Greek text. There exists two Greek words for "other": allos which means another of the same kind and heteros which means another of a different kind. Paul could have used either word here if he wanted to show that Jesus was "another" created thing, but he did not. There is no linguistic reason at all to insert this word here four times - unless you are trying support the presupposition that Jesus is not God.

    Below is a copy out of the Jehovah's Witness' Kingdom interlinear. This book has the Greek words and their exact English translation underneath each word. The right-hand column is how the New World translation renders the Greek into the English. I have added red squares is in order to demonstrate the additions into the English text that are not supported in the Greek.New World Translation of Colossians 1:16

    In the New World Translation you will notice that the word "other" is in brackets. This is an admission that the words are not in the original text. Of course, the Watchtower Organization claims that the insertion of the word "other" four times is necessary to clarify the text. It isn't. If anything, it misleads the reader. Nevertheless, if you have the opportunity, ask a Jehovah's Witness to read the text without saying the word "other." Usually, he will have difficulty. Also, ask him what he thinks the text is saying without the word "other" added in. It will be an interesting discussion.

    Basically, Jehovah's Witness theology maintains that God created Jesus and then Jesus created all other things.

    Isaiah, 44:24, "Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, 'I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens by Myself, and spreading out the earth all alone.'"

    If the Jehovah's Witness is correct, then how is it possible for the LORD (YHWH or Jehovah) to stretch out the heavens by Himself, all alone (not angels with Him), and yet Jesus "the first created thing" be the one who did it? They can't both be true to the Jehovah's Witness.

    The truth is that Jehovah is the name of God. God is a trinity; and, therefore Jesus can be the creator of all things; and YHWH can do it by himself since God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

    This is a very simple and direct demonstration in Scripture that Jesus is the Lord God in flesh. If He is not, then the Jehovah's Witnesses have a biblical contradiction on their hand

    Matt Slick

    https://carm.org/col-116-17-all-othe...re-created-him

    The brackets clearly indicates that other is not in the Greek Text and was spuriously added by the Kingdom Hall translators

    JohnB
    Last edited by JohnB; 04-16-2017 at 09:16 AM.
    How far must someone fall before they hit their head? b

  3. #53
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    I would like to hear from the members of the Kingdom Hall as to how they justify adding the term "other" to Colossians 1:16. There is not one example of the term "ta panta" meaning all other things in the entire New Testament with the exception of the NWT.

    How did you arrive at this conclusion.

    Tigger2 calls ta panta an adjective and yet your translators translate it as an adjective as well as a noun/pronoun

    Thanks in advance for your clarification

    JohnB
    How far must someone fall before they hit their head? b

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnB View Post
    I would like to hear from the members of the Kingdom Hall as to how they justify adding the term "other" to Colossians 1:16. There is not one example of the term "ta panta" meaning all other things in the entire New Testament with the exception of the NWT.

    How did you arrive at this conclusion.
    You have heard it many times. At least it was posted many times. Why do you still not know?
    Translation are "largely" literal. Meaning to translate, other words need to be added or subtracted, or rearranged, to make sense in the new language.
    And Isa 44:24 is God comparing Himself with the gods the nations worshipped. Thus out of context with your further explanation.
    Agape,
    TBax

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBax View Post
    You have heard it many times. At least it was posted many times. Why do you still not know?
    Translation are "largely" literal. Meaning to translate, other words need to be added or subtracted, or rearranged, to make sense in the new language.
    And Isa 44:24 is God comparing Himself with the gods the nations worshipped. Thus out of context with your further explanation.
    Other is not in the original and no one has clarified why they added the term "other" in the text. If Paul intended the use of other in this text it would be in the manuscript. It isn,'t there

    JohnB
    How far must someone fall before they hit their head? b

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnB View Post
    I would like to hear from the members of the Kingdom Hall as to how they justify adding the term "other" to Colossians 1:16. There is not one example of the term "ta panta" meaning all other things in the entire New Testament with the exception of the NWT.

    How did you arrive at this conclusion.

    Tigger2 calls ta panta an adjective and yet your translators translate it as an adjective as well as a noun/pronoun

    Thanks in advance for your clarification

    JohnB
    Seriously?

    1 Cor 15:27 For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him.

    That is a model of why.

    God created Jesus in a way completely different than everything else, but create him he did.

    the "other", then is plain, just as it is "plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection", is it not?
    "You [the Father], the Only True God" -- Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)

  7. #57
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    I would like to hear why is it that two different writers including Jesus' own words come up with the idea that Jesus did not create people?

    Matt 19:4 He answered, "Haven't you read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female."

    Who is exactly the "he who"?

    Mark 10:6 "But from the beginning of creation he made them male and female."

    Again this is a "he" not a they, who is this "he"? The obvious conclusion is that from these two texts as recorded to have been spoken by Jesus is that Jesus claimed to not have created people.

    The writer to the Hebrews states that it was God who rested the seventh day, not the son.

    Heb 4:4

    Note that in Exo 20:11 For in six days Yahweh made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore Yahweh blessed the Sabbath day, and made it holy.

    We should know that Yahweh is not Jesus nor is Jesus Yahweh.

  8. #58
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by 1stjohn View Post
    I would like to hear why is it that two different writers including Jesus' own words come up with the idea that Jesus did not create people?

    Matt 19:4 He answered, "Haven't you read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female."

    Who is exactly the "he who"?
    A woman was admiring a picture in a Paris art gallery when a man walked up to her, and standing beside her said, "did you know that "he who" created that picture cut off his ear?" She had no idea who the person was that spoke to her, until an official asked, "what did van Gogh say to you?"
    .
    Last edited by 1an; 04-20-2017 at 08:39 AM.
    The god, who said, “kill everyone” Deu 20:16, is not the father of God the Son
    who in oneness of unity with God the Father said, "thou shall not kill."

  9. #59

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    [QUOTE=1an;1316734]

    A woman was admiring a picture in a Paris art gallery when a man walked up to her, and standing beside her said, "did you know that "he who" created that picture cut off his ear?" She had no idea who the person was that spoke to her, until an official asked, "what did van Gogh say to you?"
    .
    Slightly mismatched. Should be:

    until an official asked, "what did the choir say to you?"

    The woman said "Huhhh? How many?"
    "You [the Father], the Only True God" -- Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)

  10. #60
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    [QUOTE=An Onymous Brother;1316986]
    Quote Originally Posted by 1an View Post
    Slightly mismatched. Should be:
    An example of how JW's pervert the written word.
    The god, who said, “kill everyone” Deu 20:16, is not the father of God the Son
    who in oneness of unity with God the Father said, "thou shall not kill."

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