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Thread: WT- Jesus Created "Everything Else"

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    Default WT- Jesus Created "Everything Else"

    IT-2 Book "This firstborn spirit Son was used by his Father in the creation of all other things. (Joh 1:3; Col 1:16,*17) This would include the millions of other spirit sons of Jehovah God’s heavenly family (Da 7:9, 10; Re 5:11), as well as the physical universe and the creatures originally produced within it. Logically, it was to this firstborn Son that Jehovah said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness.” (Ge 1:26) All these other created things were not only created “through him” but also “for him,” as God’s Firstborn and the “heir of all things.”

    The basic JW position here seems to be that the Father created Jesus and then Jesus created everything else. (If there are any exceptions to this they can be commented on.)

    Col. 1:16,17 " For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together."


    Question 1: Does this mean that a JW would have to agree that in Gen. 1:1 it could accurately be interpreted that in the beginning Jesus created the heavens and the earth?

    Question 2: Can a JW explain why this verse mentions a singular being (three times) in the following scripture, and tell us who it is?
    Isa. 44:24 "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone,"

    According to the JW bible the last words read "Who was with me" instead of "all alone." Who indeed?
    "Ignorance Can Be Educated And Crazy Can Be Medicated But There's No Cure For Stupid."

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Beowulf View Post
    IT-2 Book "This firstborn spirit Son was used by his Father in the creation of all other things. (Joh 1:3; Col 1:16,*17) This would include the millions of other spirit sons of Jehovah God’s heavenly family (Da 7:9, 10; Re 5:11), as well as the physical universe and the creatures originally produced within it. Logically, it was to this firstborn Son that Jehovah said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness.” (Ge 1:26) All these other created things were not only created “through him” but also “for him,” as God’s Firstborn and the “heir of all things.”

    The basic JW position here seems to be that the Father created Jesus and then Jesus created everything else. (If there are any exceptions to this they can be commented on.)

    Col. 1:16,17 " For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together."


    Question 1: Does this mean that a JW would have to agree that in Gen. 1:1 it could accurately be interpreted that in the beginning Jesus created the heavens and the earth?

    Question 2: Can a JW explain why this verse mentions a singular being (three times) in the following scripture, and tell us who it is?
    Isa. 44:24 "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone,"

    According to the JW bible the last words read "Who was with me" instead of "all alone." Who indeed?
    They would have to harmonize Jesus when he said:

    And he answered and said unto them, Have you not read, that he who made them at the beginning made them male and female (Matt 19:4)

    He who is an implication that Jesus did not participate.

    But from the beginning of creation he made them male and female. (Mark 10:6

    Who is the "he" Jesus is speaking about?

    Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself. (Isa 44:24)

    Somebody would have to agree here that Jesus is Yahweh on this. LORD is the divine name in the text. Michael is not YHVH, Jesus is not YHVH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1stjohn View Post
    They would have to harmonize Jesus when he said:

    And he answered and said unto them, Have you not read, that he who made them at the beginning made them male and female (Matt 19:4)

    He who is an implication that Jesus did not participate.

    But from the beginning of creation he made them male and female. (Mark 10:6

    Who is the "he" Jesus is speaking about?

    Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself. (Isa 44:24)

    Somebody would have to agree here that Jesus is Yahweh on this. LORD is the divine name in the text. Michael is not YHVH, Jesus is not YHVH.
    The Bible says God created through Jesus. God is the one that did it, but it was through Jesus.
    Just like God delivered Israel from Egypt through Moses.

    The OP was written by someone who consistently misrepresents JW. This OP is just another example of this.
    Agape,
    TBax

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    Quote Originally Posted by TBax View Post
    The Bible says God created through Jesus. God is the one that did it, but it was through Jesus.
    Just like God delivered Israel from Egypt through Moses.

    The OP was written by someone who consistently misrepresents JW. This OP is just another example of this.


    You said you were going to ignore me, I guess you couldn't follow through.

    Since you are still following my posts care to answer the 2 questions?

    What have I misrepresented? (please tell me or is this just another unsubstantiated claim to try and deflect- as usual?)
    "Ignorance Can Be Educated And Crazy Can Be Medicated But There's No Cure For Stupid."

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Beowulf View Post
    IT-2 Book "This firstborn spirit Son was used by his Father in the creation of all other things. (Joh 1:3; Col 1:16,*17) This would include the millions of other spirit sons of Jehovah God’s heavenly family (Da 7:9, 10; Re 5:11), as well as the physical universe and the creatures originally produced within it. Logically, it was to this firstborn Son that Jehovah said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness.” (Ge 1:26) All these other created things were not only created “through him” but also “for him,” as God’s Firstborn and the “heir of all things.”

    The basic JW position here seems to be that the Father created Jesus and then Jesus created everything else. (If there are any exceptions to this they can be commented on.)

    Col. 1:16,17 " For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together."


    Question 1: Does this mean that a JW would have to agree that in Gen. 1:1 it could accurately be interpreted that in the beginning Jesus created the heavens and the earth?

    Question 2: Can a JW explain why this verse mentions a singular being (three times) in the following scripture, and tell us who it is?
    Isa. 44:24 "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone,"

    According to the JW bible the last words read "Who was with me" instead of "all alone." Who indeed?
    Excellent thread
    How far must someone fall before they hit their head? b

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnB View Post
    Excellent thread
    Hey John. Curious why you said that. Any explanation?
    You think JW believe Jesus created everything, or God created everything through Jesus? Do you understand the difference?
    Agape,
    TBax

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    Does this mean that a JW would have to agree that in Gen. 1:1 it could accurately be interpreted that in the beginning Jesus created the heavens and the earth?


    Yes, your earlier Watchtower quote said:

    This firstborn spirit Son was used by his Father in the creation of all other things. as well as the physical universe
    Can a JW explain why this verse mentions a singular being (three times) in the following scripture, and tell us who it is?
    Isa. 44:24 "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone,"


    My answer YHWH= The Father and The Word

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1stjohn View Post

    And he answered and said unto them, Have you not read, that he who made them at the beginning made them male and female (Matt 19:4)

    He who is an implication that Jesus did not participate.
    This grammatical reasoning would conflict with the first chapter of John would it not?

    But from the beginning of creation he made them male and female. (Mark 10:6

    Who is the "he" Jesus is speaking about?
    The God of Genesis 1:1


    Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself. (Isa 44:24)

    Somebody would have to agree here that Jesus is Yahweh on this.
    I do. The pre-existent Jesus who shared his Fathers glory.

    Is this concept new to you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnB View Post
    Excellent thread
    Have you noticed how incapable JW's are in being able to answer questions in this forum?

    They show an independent spirit from those "taking the lead" over them by associating here. You get more questions from them than answers. And when you present them with a question they don't want to, or can't, answer they will ask questions until they they hear something they want to respond to.

    And when someone exposes flaws in WT writings they usually
    "Ignorance Can Be Educated And Crazy Can Be Medicated But There's No Cure For Stupid."

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    IT-2 Book "This firstborn spirit Son was used by his Father in the creation of all other things...."


    6-1-88 WT "Jesus could not possibly be God himself, for Jesus was created by God. Note how Benjamin Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott renders Apocalypse (Revelation) chapter*3, verse*14: “These things says the Amen, the faithful and true witness [Jesus], the beginning of the creation of God.” Similarly, Colossians 1:15, 16 says of Jesus: “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and upon the earth .*.*. All other things have been created through him and for him.” So in heaven almighty God directly created his Son and then “by means of him,” or “through him,” created other things, much as a skilled workman might have a trained employee do work for him. Those things created “by means of him” did not include Jesus himself, for God had already created him. Thus, he is called the “firstborn,” the “only-begotten.” When a child is the firstborn, the only-begotten, it never means that the child is the same as the father. It always means that there are two different personalities involved, father and child."


    From their statements I can only see two ways of looking at this. Either Jesus was a figurative magic wand or tool that the Father used to create everything else through...

    or Jesus was a "trained employee" who did the creating while giving the Father credit. (i.e. Mr. Father started a manufacturing business from scratch- Father Manufacturing. He employed a craftsman named Mr. Son to do all of the actual manufacturing. Whenever anyone heard about or read about all of the wonderful products Father Manufacturing produced credit was universally given to Mr. Father.)
    "Ignorance Can Be Educated And Crazy Can Be Medicated But There's No Cure For Stupid."

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