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Thread: Maybe JW's no more

  1. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruminator View Post
    Reminder:Isaiah 43:10 is speaking to the Jews of the Babylonian captivity, not to JWs. The Jews have a long, long, long history of beholding the salvation of YHVH and were appointed by him to be his witnesses of their deliverance from Babylon.
    It speaks to the Jews, and all faithful servants that worship Jehovah as the only true God. Including Jesus, the foremost Faithful Witness.
    Is Jehovah the true God? He has His witnesses to testify.
    Last edited by TBax; 06-19-2017 at 01:05 PM.
    Agape,
    TBax

  2. #382
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    For the uninitiated, a straw man is directly altering your opponents argument, to then proceeding to easily knock it down.
    A straw man is not committed by me by simply relaying a principle, or a point of fact I personally believe to be true. While it is true you could extrapolate from the principle mentioned to further applications, that is called reasoning. That is done in your head. So either you agree with the principle and its applications, or you reject it and fight it. If the principle is true, then you look like a fool trying to fight it with false accusations.
    Agape,
    TBax

  3. #383
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    Ruminator and my old friend Brother P together! The two best debaters against Jehovah's Witnesses I have ever come across on this forum. The Samurai against the Silver Sword.


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  5. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBax View Post
    It speaks to the Jews, and all faithful servants that worship Jehovah as the only true God. Including Jesus, the foremost Faithful WItness.
    Is Jehovah the true God. He has His witnesses to testify.
    He indicates to whom he is speaking and he identifies them in Isaiah 43

    NIV Isaiah 43:
    1But now, this is what the Lord says—
    he who created you, Jacob,
    he who formed you, Israel:
    “Do not fear, for I have redeemed you;
    I have summoned you by name; you are mine.
    2When you pass through the waters,
    I will be with you;
    and when you pass through the rivers,
    they will not sweep over you.
    When you walk through the fire,
    you will not be burned;
    the flames will not set you ablaze.
    3For I am the Lord your God,
    the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;
    I give Egypt for your ransom,
    Cusha and Seba in your stead.
    4Since you are precious and honored in my sight,
    and because I love you,
    I will give people in exchange for you,
    nations in exchange for your life.
    5Do not be afraid, for I am with you;
    I will bring your children from the east
    and gather you from the west.
    6I will say to the north, ‘Give them up!’
    and to the south, ‘Do not hold them back.’
    Bring my sons from afar
    and my daughters from the ends of the earth—
    7everyone who is called by my name,
    whom I created for my glory,
    whom I formed and made.”

    8Lead out those who have eyes but are blind,
    who have ears but are deaf.
    9All the nations gather together
    and the peoples assemble.
    Which of their gods foretold this
    and proclaimed to us the former things?
    Let them bring in their witnesses to prove they were right,
    so that others may hear and say, “It is true.”
    10You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord,
    and my servant whom I have chosen,
    so that you may know and believe me
    and understand that I am he.
    Before me no god was formed,
    nor will there be one after me...



    I know that most people are quite comfortable ignoring the context of a verse if it suits them but as far as I'm concerned the parties involved in this passage are clearly defined and to ignore to whom this was spoken is aggressing.
    It's a wonderful life

  6. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBax View Post
    It speaks to the Jews, and all faithful servants that worship Jehovah as the only true God. Including Jesus, the foremost Faithful Witness.
    Is Jehovah the true God? He has His witnesses to testify.
    Also, it isn't speaking of evangelism but rather he is calling the Jews to be Yehovah's witnesses in a rhetorical or notional trial. God calls on Israel to be encouraged and trust him based on the things which they have seen with their own eyes. While commonly used interchangeably today, witnessing and evangelizing are entirely different things.
    It's a wonderful life

  7. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBax View Post
    For the uninitiated, a straw man is directly altering your opponents argument, to then proceeding to easily knock it down.
    A straw man is not committed by me by simply relaying a principle, or a point of fact I personally believe to be true. While it is true you could extrapolate from the principle mentioned to further applications, that is called reasoning. That is done in your head. So either you agree with the principle and its applications, or you reject it and fight it. If the principle is true, then you look like a fool trying to fight it with false accusations.
    In these cases (very common treatment towards ex JW's) you tried to liken ones like me to a faithless person (so bible = gibberish). You make out that we are somehow completely fine with this notion and have some devilish scheme going on

    You then "proceed to easily knock it (strawman) down" because your stance looks more reasonable (or in religious terms, most upright).

    True, you have made me see it more from your point of view...which means that if you truly believe these horribly biased assumptions and aren't deliberately misrepresenting the "opposition" then it would strictly be a false premise (from my point of view) rather than a strawman.

    Also I see what you mean about bringing out principles (e.g religious leaders not getting scripture), but that was addressed, to which you seem more interested in policing the fallacy call out than the substance itself.

    The religious leaders were too full of their own importance, they already "knew it all"...they didn't need some uneducated carpenter's Son telling them (ie "God's channel on earth") how to draw close to the Father.

    **cough cough**
    Jesus' complete life and teachings:

    http://truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1375

  8. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
    Ruminator and my old friend Brother P together! The two best debaters against Jehovah's Witnesses I have ever come across on this forum. The Samurai against the Silver Sword.

    Haha thank you. I love to get people's perspective, it's interesting and something different is always brought to the table!
    Last edited by Brother P; 06-19-2017 at 02:48 PM.
    Jesus' complete life and teachings:

    http://truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1375

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  10. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBax View Post
    For the uninitiated, a straw man is directly altering your opponents argument, to then proceeding to easily knock it down.
    A straw man is not committed by me by simply relaying a principle, or a point of fact I personally believe to be true. While it is true you could extrapolate from the principle mentioned to further applications, that is called reasoning. That is done in your head. So either you agree with the principle and its applications, or you reject it and fight it. If the principle is true, then you look like a fool trying to fight it with false accusations.

    I am so thankful that a JW knocked on my parents door 55 years ago, and they listened. I was 4. I have studied both sides carefully. There is 0 doubt it is the JW religion that obeys Jesus. The others-will not obey Jesus --Like this super ultra important teaching Jesus gave to all free as the JW teachers do as well. Matthew 6:33-- Therefore, keep on seeking-FIRST- the kingdom and his( YHVH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these other things will be added to you( sustenance, covering, spirituality)--Once one accomplishes this--Then they can accomplish this other super ultra important reality for a true followers daily existence--John 4:22-24= YHVH(Jehovah)--Sadly Jesus taught--FEW will find the road. Because they do not obey Jesus.

    Come take lifes waters free

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    Gentiles and Ladybugs, I need to take some more time off. Catch you in a couple of weeks.

    Kudos to all for keeping this thread civil and focused on the issues!

    TBax, et al, nothing that transpires here need be taken personally. We can all be glad for each other despite the fact that we *all* have very, very limited perspectives and no one knows anything as they should.

    Appreciate you all and see ya in a couple of weeks.

    Rum
    It's a wonderful life

  13. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruminator View Post
    Gentiles and Ladybugs, I need to take some more time off. Catch you in a couple of weeks.

    Kudos to all for keeping this thread civil and focused on the issues!

    TBax, et al, nothing that transpires here need be taken personally. We can all be glad for each other despite the fact that we *all* have very, very limited perspectives and no one knows anything as they should.

    Appreciate you all and see ya in a couple of weeks.

    Rum
    Take care and enjoy your time off
    Jesus' complete life and teachings:

    http://truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1375

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