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Thread: Do you believe in coincidences?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by An Onymous Brother View Post
    Should you ever truly think about it, it is quite a disgusting concept that I cannot see in any way, shape, or form possible to reconcile with a merciful and compassionate and loving God.
    You bring up some serious theological and ethical issues, An Onymous Brother.. the thing is.. the problem is with YOU, and NOT with God.

    Perhaps you are familiar with the notion that God is shown to have done "horrible" things, actively or passively, in the OT.

    That may be what you speak of. It does not apply to our discussion.

    I believe what you really mean is that those horrible things you speak of do not jive with YOUR concept of God.. which is.. that YOU would NOT allow those things, therefore.. neither should "a merciful and compassionate and loving God".

    God, as the Heavenly Micro Manager, doesn't get past GO!
    I can't speak for nor will I defend your god.

    MY God, on the other hand, IS shown to be the driving AND sustaining "force" (for lack of a better word) in the world.

    James 1

    12 Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.
    13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.
    14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.
    15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.
    Come on.. An Onymous Brother.. are you really saying that God never tested / tests anyone?

    Read the Book of Job.

    Ecc 9:11 Again I saw that under the sun the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, nor bread to the wise, nor riches to the intelligent, nor favor to those with knowledge, but time and chance happen to them all.
    That has nothing to do with testing as we are discussing.
    2Co 11:1 I wish you would bear with me in a little foolishness. Do bear with me!

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWashedBrain View Post
    Again.. I believe He IS in control.. not me.
    1 John 5:
    19) We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

    Luke 4:
    5) And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
    6) And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    1 John 5:
    19) We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

    Luke 4:
    5) And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
    6) And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
    You are not implying that God is behind the scenes biting His fingernails wondering what He will have to do to deal with whatever the devil is coming up with .. are you shroom?

    ( come to think of it.. I DO believe that is exactly what you believe is going on and has been going on since the Creation! good grief )
    2Co 11:1 I wish you would bear with me in a little foolishness. Do bear with me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWashedBrain View Post
    You are not implying that God is behind the scenes biting His fingernails wondering what He will have to do to deal with whatever the devil is coming up with .. are you shroom?

    ( come to think of it.. I DO believe that is exactly what you believe is going on and has been going on since the Creation! good grief )
    Biting His fingernails? No. Planning things out? Yes.

    Tell me, TWB... Don't you believe 1 John 5:19 or Luke 4:5-6? Why do you suppose they're in the bible?

    Or this:
    Rom 8:
    19) The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.
    20) For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope
    21) that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
    22) We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.

    When Adam sinned, he turned control of this world over to God's arch enemy, Satan, who still holds it as 1 John 5:19 plainly states.

    One day (soon?) Jesus Christ will return to earth and take back that control. The entire creation has been waiting for that day. Until that happens, God is at war with Satan, and we are in the battlefield.

    Currently, God is NOT in control of everything that happens on this planet. Actually, He is behind very little of it. We are to pray for God's will to be done, it's not automatic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    Biting His fingernails? No. Planning things out? Yes.
    I believe I have mentioned this before.. the devil is God's devil.. shroom. Satan and God are not "duking it out" and sometimes the devil "wins", and sometimes God "wins".

    Sorry, the devil has never "trumped" God's will. Neither has man.

    Tell me, TWB... Don't you believe 1 John 5:19 or Luke 4:5-6? Why do you suppose they're in the bible?

    Or this:
    Rom 8:
    19) The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.
    20) For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope
    21) that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
    22) We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.

    When Adam sinned, he turned control of this world over to God's arch enemy, Satan, who still holds it as 1 John 5:19 plainly states.

    One day (soon?) Jesus Christ will return to earth and take back that control. The entire creation has been waiting for that day. Until that happens, God is at war with Satan, and we are in the battlefield.

    Currently, God is NOT in control of everything that happens on this planet. Actually, He is behind very little of it. We are to pray for God's will to be done, it's not automatic.
    I don't think your references have anything to do with who is in control of what.. shroom.

    I believe "the creation" "rejoiced" to see the Day of the Lord. IOW, what the New Testament fulfillment brought about is a direct and personal relationship WITH God that what the Old Testament could only hope ( but failed) to achieve.

    None of that is future.

    I'm still the "Calvinist Preterist". LOL
    2Co 11:1 I wish you would bear with me in a little foolishness. Do bear with me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWashedBrain View Post
    You bring up some serious theological and ethical issues, An Onymous Brother.. the thing is.. the problem is with YOU, and NOT with God.
    Not with me. I know God does not micromanage.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWashedBrain View Post
    Perhaps you are familiar with the notion that God is shown to have done "horrible" things, actively or passively, in the OT.
    Familiar with other people's notions about the subject. Mine is very different.

    Yet still has no effect on Him being a micromanager or a kid playing with Lego action figures.

    As far as I am concerned, God has the right to shred me alive and turn me into hamburger over eternity in the most agonizing way to me possible, Him being the author of the universe and the sovereign authority to do whatever He wants in it. Which deflates most of what you have said so far (and further on).

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWashedBrain View Post
    That may be what you speak of. It does not apply to our discussion.

    I believe what you really mean is that those horrible things you speak of do not jive with YOUR concept of God.. which is.. that YOU would NOT allow those things, therefore.. neither should "a merciful and compassionate and loving God".
    See above. Your logic is flawed in not seeing the difference between "allowing" and "causing". One is lack of intervention because of circumstances not of their own doing. The other is being the source of said need for intervention. Quite different to the rational mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWashedBrain View Post
    I can't speak for nor will I defend your god.

    MY God, on the other hand, IS shown to be the driving AND sustaining "force" (for lack of a better word) in the world.
    I do not believe in the Fates, or the webs they weave. But, you feel free to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWashedBrain View Post
    Come on.. An Onymous Brother.. are you really saying that God never tested / tests anyone?
    I gave you the words God inspired. You can either choose to believe them or not. As I said, feel free to believe in the Fates and their mystical weaving.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWashedBrain View Post
    Read the Book of Job.
    "But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face.”

    And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.

    So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

    And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?

    He still holds fast his integrity, although you incited me against him to destroy him without reason.”

    Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Skin for skin! All that a man has he will give for his life. But stretch out your hand and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse you to your face.”

    And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, he is in your hand; only spare his life.”

    So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and struck Job with loathsome sores from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head.
    That book of Job, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWashedBrain View Post
    That has nothing to do with testing as we are discussing.
    I believe your original premise was "God is behind EVERYTHING."

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWashedBrain View Post
    Because I believe God IS in the equation (of everything, by the way). I can not see it any other way.
    Which is the only reason I even posted on this subject.

    Ecc 9:11 Again I saw that under the sun the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, nor bread to the wise, nor riches to the intelligent, nor favor to those with knowledge, but time and chance happen to them all.
    Seems to indicate GOD does not always have a hand in things.

    Well, at least MY GOD, the one you won't defend, tells me so.
    "You [the Father], the Only True God" -- Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWashedBrain View Post
    I believe I have mentioned this before.. the devil is God's devil.. shroom. Satan and God are not "duking it out" and sometimes the devil "wins", and sometimes God "wins".
    We completely disagree.

    I don't think your references have anything to do with who is in control of what.. shroom.
    I think your Calvinist theology has clouded your ability to read.

    1 John 5:19 plainly states that the evil one is in control of the world.

    I believe "the creation" "rejoiced" to see the Day of the Lord. IOW, what the New Testament fulfillment brought about is a direct and personal relationship WITH God that what the Old Testament could only hope ( but failed) to achieve.

    None of that is future.
    Nearly all of that is future.

    I'm still the "Calvinist Preterist". LOL
    It's your choice to believe what you want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWashedBrain View Post
    You are not implying that God is behind the scenes biting His fingernails wondering what He will have to do to deal with whatever the devil is coming up with .. are you shroom?

    ( come to think of it.. I DO believe that is exactly what you believe is going on and has been going on since the Creation! good grief )
    Not exactly the picture.
    Rev 4:
    1 After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.”
    At once I was in the Spirit, and behold, a throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne.

    Rev 5
    1 Then I saw in the right hand of him who was seated on the throne a scroll written within and on the back, sealed with seven seals.
    And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?”
    Seems quite relaxed to me, no finger-nail biting, nor OCD busy-body planning a billion toe-stubbings and nose-pickings.
    "You [the Father], the Only True God" -- Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by An Onymous Brother View Post
    See above. Your logic is flawed in not seeing the difference between "allowing" and "causing". One is lack of intervention because of circumstances not of their own doing. The other is being the source of said need for intervention. Quite different to the rational mind.
    Does not compute. Perhaps to the rational mind. I'll give you that.. I speak supernaturally, as things pertaining to God.

    In what God does, there can NOT be "a lack of intervention because of circumstances NOT of their own doing".

    The testing of Job WAS God's doing.

    So.. in a way, God DID cause Job's trials. (careful there.. I said "in a way").

    I do not believe in the Fates, or the webs they weave. But, you feel free to do so.
    The Biblical concept is "Predestination".


    I gave you the words God inspired. You can either choose to believe them or not. As I said, feel free to believe in the Fates and their mystical weaving.

    Ecc 9:11 Again I saw that under the sun the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, nor bread to the wise, nor riches to the intelligent, nor favor to those with knowledge, but time and chance happen to them all.
    The Book of Ecclesiastes is mostly the opinions of a smart man, until he acknowledges God is all that matters.

    There is no such thing as "chance". Only God's will.


    That book of Job, right?
    Yes. How could you miss that Satan was doing God's bidding.. under HIS direct control?

    I believe your original premise was "God is behind EVERYTHING."
    Still is. More so now.

    Well, at least MY GOD, the one you won't defend, tells me so.
    A different (false) god.. to be sure.

    Essentially, your god tells you he is not in control. That, sometimes, you are on your own. Interesting.

    My God EXPECTS me to acknowledge Him always, in all my ways.

    To each his own?, An Onymous Brother?
    2Co 11:1 I wish you would bear with me in a little foolishness. Do bear with me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWashedBrain View Post
    There is no such thing as "chance". Only God's will.
    So you believe this whole thing is God's giant puppet show?

    I think you're in for a rude awakening one day.

    I watched a video once where John Piper (I think it was him..) said something like "there is not a drop of rain that falls that God has not decreed it so". It made me wanna puke.

    You are responsible for what you choose to do and think. What you decide to do matters.

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