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    Quote Originally Posted by ludwig View Post
    Yes, they were influenced; ...but by what?
    They were influenced by the surrounding pagan nations in a time of peace and prosperity, when GOD is away, and the hired shepherds neglect the sheep of their food of the Old Covenant, while feeding them crumbs and fatten themselves instead with popularity and prosperity.

    As today the churches in 'lukewarmness' and conformed to the pattern of this world, where the appointed shepherds neglect the lambs and sheep of their food of the New Covenant, while feeding them only crumbs and fattening themselves instead with popularity and prosperity.

    The worst is history repeating itself in house of liberation, when the present one should be wiser than them, learning from their mistakes that stands as a Testament, where they were punished for all of their 'abomination', while the present one have not, waiting till judgement day when they will be separated eternally.

    Were they influenced to follow some religion that sets their children on fire?
    Were the children set on fire or the children were told to walk on the fire? In hinduism during their festive seasons there are occasion where there is a customary of walking on fire, and also prior to all it's preparations required. There Israelites were under the yoke of slavery, the Law of Moses and are enslaved to sin and death, therefore as Scripture say, 'They did what was pleasing in their sight.'

    What motive would they have had to do that?
    'Sin'.

    To every man the Scripture quotes, as GOD spoke to Cain that day saying, "And if do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it."

    On that day when the Israelites were under the yoke of slavery and ruled by sin and death, were they able to rule over sin? And were the Gentiles able?

    Both were ruled out by GOD as sinners and have fallen short of HIS Glory, period

    Therefore Christian today are able, where sin has lost its 'power' and death its 'sting' over them, and they are able to say 'no' to their fleshly/carnal's passions and desires, and its works are evident within, 'sexual immorality', 'impurity', 'sensuality', 'idolatry', 'sorcery', 'enmity', 'strife', 'jealousy', 'fits of anger', 'rivalries', 'dissensions', 'divisions', 'envy', 'drunkenness', 'orgies', and things like these. And those who do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of GOD, where supposedly those who belong to CHRIST JESUS have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fredjames View Post
    Were the children set on fire or the children were told to walk on the fire? In hinduism during their festive seasons there are occasion where there is a customary of walking on fire, and also prior to all it's preparations required. There Israelites were under the yoke of slavery, the Law of Moses and are enslaved to sin and death, therefore as Scripture say, 'They did what was pleasing in their sight.'
    So the Lord got very upset with the Israelite's because they liked walking on coals? Not plausible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ludwig View Post
    So the Lord got very upset with the Israelite's because they liked walking on coals? Not plausible.
    The LORD got upset because Israel violated the Covenant HE made with them through Moses. In the Covenant there are HIS word/teaching, the many 'do' and the 'don't'. Their flesh are weak to these Spiritual Laws, therefore they are in bondage to sin and death.

    It is lame if a believer acknowledges that the LORD was upset because HIS people liked walking on coals. For that is not the case because HIS people have a record of committing 'abomination' against HIM over and over again, while HE is away. But HIS word/teaching are there to stay, then again they are soon forgotten and the papyrus too is forgotten and soon ends up in one corner. At times the papyrus were found by some individual who stumble upon it while performing another task, for instant in one occasion, found in one of the Temple storage chambers.

    GOD said through Moses to HIS people, especially the 'elders', to 'recite' the Scripture at all times. In them the second commandment of GOD forbids them from worshiping other gods besides their only one true GOD, even the making of carved images and any thing in it's likeness, and to bow down and worship them. And GOD did pronounce the judgement upon violating them, that will follow along with it visitation to three and four generations.

    In Deuteronomy GOD through Moses did also commanded them not to introduce in their lives or Israel, any things that is correlated with paganism, that which takes place in their surrounding nations/neighbours, period

    Now then readers, did the LORD get very upset with the Israelites because they liked walking on coals, or the above?

    What happened and happens between the Israelites and their GOD is none of our business, to even give any comments and jokes against them. But truthfully, their mistakes are lessons for us as Gentiles who were adopted into the family, to learn from. And therefore pray for them instead, who have been the 'channel' of blessings to us. JESUS Himself taught His disciples to pray for Israel, that GOD saves Israel from all it's troubles.

    They have been given the 'yoke of slavery' through Moses, but then it was taken away by CHRIST who accomplished for them, till on the Cross of Calvary. Therefore now He calls all who are weary and heavy laden carrying the 'yoke of slavery' on their shoulders, to lay them down. He claim to be gentle and humble and one to learn from, and gives all of us a light yoke to bear henceforth.
    Last edited by fredjames; 04-05-2017 at 03:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fredjames View Post
    The LORD got upset because Israel violated the Covenant HE made with them through Moses. In the Covenant there are HIS word/teaching, the many 'do' and the 'don't'. Their flesh are weak to these Spiritual Laws, therefore they are in bondage to sin and death.

    It is lame if a believer acknowledges that the LORD was upset because HIS people liked walking on coals. For that is not the case because HIS people have a record of committing 'abomination' against HIM over and over again, while HE is away. But HIS word/teaching are there to stay, then again they are soon forgotten and the papyrus too is forgotten and soon ends up in one corner. At times the papyrus were found by some individual who stumble upon it while performing another task, for instant in one occasion, found in one of the Temple chambers.

    GOD said through Moses to HIS people, especially the 'elders', to 'recite' the Scripture at all times. In them the second commandment of GOD forbids them from worshiping other gods besides their only one true GOD, even the making of carved images and any thing in it's likeness. And GOD did pronounce the judgement upon violating them, that will follow along with it to three and four generations.

    In Deuteronomy GOD through Moses did also commanded them not to introduce in their lives or Israel, any things that is correlated with paganism, that which takes place in their surrounding nations/neighbours, period

    Now then readers, did the LORD get very upset with the Israelites because they liked walking on coals or the above?

    What happened and happens between the Israelites and their GOD is none of our business, to even give any comments and jokes against them. But truthfully, their mistakes are lessons for us as Gentiles adopted into the family, to learn from, and therefore pray for them. JESUS Himself taught His disciples to pray for Israel, that GOD saves Israel from all it's troubles.

    They have been given the 'yoke of slavery' through Moses, but then it was taken away by CHRIST who accomplished for them, till on the Cross of Calvary. Therefore now He calls all who are weary and heavy laden carrying the 'yoke of slavery' on their shoulders, to lay them down. He claim to be gentle and humble and one to learn from, and gives all of us a light yoke to bear henceforth.
    We were discussing the topic of the Israelite's sacrificing their children, which obviously constitutes sin, but which I do not believe represented their physically burning their children.
    I have provided various examples why this sacrificing of their children is metaphorical representing their accepting the ways (values) of their neighbors.
    In contrast you claimed the Israelite's did have their children doing something like walking over coals, which would then be what supposedly angered the Lord.
    Now your current response diverts from your previous inference, and is more in line with what I have been claiming all along.

    The yoke of slavery you refer to are the values (the ways) of the local people the Israelite's took upon themselves and sacrificed their children to accept and worship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ludwig View Post
    We were discussing the topic of the Israelite's sacrificing their children, which obviously constitutes sin, but which I do not believe represented their physically burning their children.
    Abraham was about to do the same thing to Isaac but only thing was stopped by the angel of the LORD. Isaac was tied up and laid on a stack of woods on the altar, before the axe was drawn on him. Regardless the debate it did not go through, Abraham's act is clear paganism, slaughtering for blood and burnt offering, even to extensive measure in paganism there were offerings of babies, children and virgins.

    Or shall i testify perhaps it is the other way around, that the pagans picked it up initially from the influence beginning with Adam and Eve's son Abel, and his first heartfelt offering to his GOD in thankfulness and honor. As the pagans picked it up, beguiled themselves to worship and offer offerings to false gods, in request, thankfulness and honor simultaneously.

    I have provided various examples why this sacrificing of their children is metaphorical representing their accepting the ways (values) of their neighbors.
    Well you had me fool there, for i thought you have obtained some news, even in the Scriptures that such a thing physically possibly did take place and acted by an Israelite.

    In contrast you claimed the Israelite's did have their children doing something like walking over coals, which would then be what supposedly angered the Lord.
    As a matter of truth, i did not claim such a thing, if you carefully reread what i have asked of you. But you were in a adrenaline in regards to your topic, that you fall short in answering my very question requested of you, whether their children were thrown into the fire or were told to walk on fire. You have to get this by adding to your wisdom that there are guest who might drop in during the midst of a banquet, and they would want to join in the fellowship that is already half way through. Therefore they would ask questions in regards to the topic of fellowship, in order for them to catch up, and share to the best of their ability what they can contribute for everyone there. But if the host is in a adrenaline in regards to the topic of the discussion and answers something else to the just walked in guest, therefore why be upset with the guest when the host have had them at fooled?

    Now your current response diverts from your previous inference, and is more in line with what I have been claiming all along.
    my current legitimate response is in response to your fluctuating responses to such legitimate topic, and you do acknowledge is in line with what you have been claiming all along. Therefore what is the debate here, or is it i have turned out to be the 'party pooper'?

    The yoke of slavery you refer to are the values (the ways) of the local people the Israelite's took upon themselves and sacrificed their children to accept and worship.
    In your adrenaline 'ludwig' and in regards to the Kingdom of GOD, the LORD have not given us everything for us to be on top of one another, but have distributed them among brothers here. And we can learn valuable things from one another in fellowship, rather than scarcely in debates, if we patiently read one another's replies and respond accordingly, so that one of us can catch up with rest of the group in the race. But if one of us want to dominate the team believing who has all the wisdom needed to win the race, therefore they must prove that their strategy is in complacent with the rule book itself and complying.

    If not, the group and teamwork will be divided and their efforts end up in vain, and their race will come to an abrupt. Example, it is not about who interpreted regarding the 'yoke of slavery' well, but whose strategy is in complacent with the rule book and complying as a Testament to everyone's benefit, that they too be built up in the written truth?

    In the rule book itself which is the truth, and the 'ombudsman' who resides accordingly dictates that, the 'yoke of slavery' Apostle Paul refers to are on the people of Israel is the 'Law of Moses'. The were oblige to them which was Spiritual and perfect, diligently to the letter, in works to please their GOD, that became a 'yoke of slavery' on their shoulders, where sin and death dominated their lives. Since according to Apostle Paul, the Law was given in order to bolt out sin from within and know that they are sinners, for when the Law was given, sin came to live. Therefore in conjunction the 'everyday sacrificial ordinance' were implemented and conducted end of every 12th hour of each day. That is each day they have been in the fields and have become unclean at the end of that day, where they wash themselves and the things with them for that day, and when evenings come, they visit the Temple and priest with the required offerings to be offered, in order for them to be counted as forgiven and are clean in the eyes of the LORD, and saved for the day, until the day the MESSIAH arrives.

    GOD in CHRIST bless.
    Last edited by fredjames; 04-05-2017 at 10:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fredjames View Post
    Abraham was about to do the same thing to Isaac but only thing was stopped by the angel of the LORD. Isaac was tied up and laid on a stack of woods on the altar, before the axe was drawn on him. Regardless the debate it did not go through, Abraham's act is clear paganism, slaughtering for blood and burnt offering, even to extensive measure in paganism there were offerings of babies, children and virgins.
    Abraham willing to sacrifice his son is an example of Abraham's love for God, of Whom, likewise did sacrifice His only Son for His Love for us.



    Quote Originally Posted by fredjames View Post
    In the rule book itself which is the truth, and the 'ombudsman' who resides accordingly dictates that, the 'yoke of slavery' Apostle Paul refers to are on the people of Israel is the 'Law of Moses'. The were oblige to them which was Spiritual and perfect, diligently to the letter, in works to please their GOD, that became a 'yoke of slavery' on their shoulders, where sin and death dominated their lives. Since according to Apostle Paul, the Law was given in order to bolt out sin from within and know that they are sinners, for when the Law was given, sin came to live. Therefore in conjunction the 'everyday sacrificial ordinance' were implemented and conducted end of every 12th hour of each day. That is each day they have been in the fields and have become unclean at the end of that day, where they wash themselves and the things with them for that day, and when evenings come, they visit the Temple and priest with the required offerings to be offered, in order for them to be counted as forgiven and are clean in the eyes of the LORD, and saved for the day, until the day the MESSIAH arrives.

    GOD in CHRIST bless.
    I can agree that the Israelite's were and are bound to the written law. and are accursed should they not keep all of it (Galatians 3:10); but this does not represent the yoke of slavery.

    Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ludwig View Post
    Abraham willing to sacrifice his son is an example of Abraham's love for God, of Whom, likewise did sacrifice His only Son for His Love for us.
    Abraham is a 'friend' of GOD and he is our 'father of faith'. He was tested by GOD, but what i am merely highlighting is the offering and sacrifice is of paganism practice of ancient days. And if it was me, i would have rebuked that voice instead, believing it is the deceiving devil's request, as i have seen my pagan neighbors offer to their false gods. And when the Law of Moses' was given, these of pagan practice and practices are prohibited in Israel, and sin was being recorded in Heaven.

    I can agree that the Israelite's were and are bound to the written law. and are accursed should they not keep all of it (Galatians 3:10); but this does not represent the yoke of slavery.

    Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
    Dear readers, this is for your distinguishment whether the 'yoke of slavery' Apostle Paul is referring to, is the 'Law of Moses' or not.

    As it is written;

    'Now, therefore why are you putting GOD to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?'

    'For freedom CHRIST has set us free, stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery. Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, CHRIST will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole Law'

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    Quote Originally Posted by fredjames View Post
    Abraham is a 'friend' of GOD and he is our 'father of faith'. He was tested by GOD, but what i am merely highlighting is the offering and sacrifice is of paganism practice of ancient days. And if it was me, i would have rebuked that voice instead, believing it is the deceiving devil's request, as i have seen my pagan neighbors offer to their false gods. And when the Law of Moses' was given, these of pagan practice and practices are prohibited in Israel, and sin was being recorded in Heaven.
    I can understand where you think Abraham's offering of his son in sacrifice is of pagan origins; however, it was the Lord who requested this offering from Abraham; otherwise Abraham would not have offered his son in sacrifice.
    In addition to the Lord having tested Abraham to see if he would carry through of his sons sacrifice, the Lord also provides this as an example of when He (the Lord) would sacrifice His only son.



    Quote Originally Posted by fredjames View Post
    Dear readers, this is for your distinguishment whether the 'yoke of slavery' Apostle Paul is referring to, is the 'Law of Moses' or not.

    As it is written;

    'Now, therefore why are you putting GOD to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?'

    'For freedom CHRIST has set us free, stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery. Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, CHRIST will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole Law'
    One is slave to whatever overpowers him (2 Peter 2:19). If those under the law were overpowered by its constraints, they would then be followers of the law. They, however, are not overcome by the law, and so are in bondage to what does overpower them (which is to sin), and to follow its requirements.

    2 Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

    Peace to you, fredjames.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ludwig View Post
    In addition to the Lord having tested Abraham to see if he would carry through of his sons sacrifice, the Lord also provides this as an example of when He (the Lord) would sacrifice His only son.
    Yes, thank you.

    One is slave to whatever overpowers him (2 Peter 2:19). If those under the law were overpowered by its constraints, they would then be followers of the law. They, however, are not overcome by the law, and so are in bondage to what does overpower them (which is to sin), and to follow its requirements.

    2 Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

    Peace to you, fredjames.
    In the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST, likewise dear 'ludwig', and may GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST bless all of you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fredjames View Post
    Yes, thank you.



    In the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST, likewise dear 'ludwig', and may GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST bless all of you.
    May the Lord bless you also brother.

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