Zechariah 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
These living waters that go out from Jerusalem at the end of the tribulation period when the Lord comes with his saints (Zech 14:5), seem to me to be a metaphor for the remnant saints who after being caught up....as in spiritually caught up, then go forth over the earth to enlighten the rest of mankind.
Adding support to these living waters representing people is: John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Your chronology and reasoning is a bit skewed. First, the nations are gathered, and Jerusalem is captured (Zech 14;2). Then the "Lord will go forth and fight" (Zech 14:3), "and all the holy ones with him" (Zech 14:5), as well as "Judah also will fight at Jerusalem" (Zech 14:14). The earthquake splits the "Mount of Olives" (Zech 14;4), and "and you will flee by the valley" (Zech 14:5). And then the "living waters shall go out from Jerusalem" (Zech 14:8) The tribulation of the nations comes with the LORD and "all the holy ones with Him" (Zech 14:5) & Zech 14:12, after "you will flee by the valley" (Zech 14:5). "You" has fled by the valley, and escaped (Joel 2:32) before the "LORD, O My God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him" (Zech 14:5).
What you're saying is very good ludwig, but the living waters, the Holy Spirit, have been flowing since Jesus poured it on His followers. That fact shouldn't be automatically dismissed from Zechariah.
The "fact" that "living waters" aren't apparently flowing from your "belly", or your church's "belly", belies your argument with respect to yourself and your church. (John 7:38) Not to say it didn't apply to Yeshua's actual followers. The Zechariah example will probably be one that will be apparently, more apparent to all the nations. (Zech 8:23)
New American Standard Bible Zech 8:23
"Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'In those days ten men from all the nations will grasp the garment of a Jew, saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you."'"
"Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you."
"But there shall not an hair of your head perish."
The believers Jesus spoke to were tortured and executed. I don't expect you to understand how God tells Zechariah Jerusalem will be safely inhabited after the coming of the Messiah.
Do what you normally do. Ignore what Jesus said to His disciples.
The problem I see, however, is that these living waters through individuals today seems to be very different from what Christ, His apostles, and other first century Christians experienced.
In my opinion it is the remnant saints who come through the great tribulation; after their having been tested that I believes correlates with Daniel 11:32-35 who will have a comparable level of the Holy Spirit (living waters) coming from them as had the Lord, His apostles, and other first century Christians.
This is what I believe is meant by the living saints being caught up with the Lord; and not some rapture from off the earth.
Daniel 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
I've got a radical new interpretation for you to consider.....water means water. So, living water wouldn't be trees or people, or spirit....it would be rivers of clean, drinkable, water.
For when nothing can be as it is, then whatever is turns into nothing. Yehushuan
I agree there are major problems with the idea of believers being "raptured" off the earth. If that belief is false, with respect to
1 Thes.4:17, do you have any thoughts about what the words "clouds" and "air" mean in that verse?
Last edited by jig; 03-20-2017 at 04:32 PM.
Being caught up to heaven/paradise happened to the individual with whom Paul conversed in 2 Corinthians 12:2 & 4.
We also see in Revelation 12:5 the male offspring of the travailing woman who is caught up to God and His throne, the devil then goes off to make war with in Revelation 12:17.
These are the only other scriptures I have found about being caught up to heaven, where we then see the individuals described still on earth.
By the way, also notice how the devil goes off to wage war with the remnant offspring in Revelation 12:17. This would seem to further indicate it occurring at the end of the great tribulation during which many of the faithful will have been killed.
2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; such an one caught up to the third heaven.
12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.