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Thread: Do you, a free person, see Muslim females as slaves?

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    Default Do you, a free person, see Muslim females as slaves?

    Do you, a free person, see Muslim females as slaves?

    In the more right wing of Islam, females are what I would call slaves. I am prompted to think in that term because if I were a Muslim man living under Sharia, I can buy myself a few child brides. There is also little stopping me from doing the same, --- where Muslims live under Sharia law, --- in new adopted countries in the free world. Slavery returns to the West.

    Fraternité, if I may remind the English speakers, means a fiduciary relationship to all other people. Slave is appropriate here. Fraternité and honesty also forces that I must look at Muslim females as slaves.

    Do I, as a free man, have any responsibility to free these Muslim women, who inadvertently help propagate slavery by their lack of revolt against it?

    The West also helps propagate slavery by allowing it into the West.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtY5bv-oxLE

    If I, as a free man, hold a responsibility to free slaves, as a free person, do you?

    How much tolerance should tolerant nations give to a huge slave trading religion and government system?

    Regards
    DL

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    As someone who has actually lived in Saudi Arabia, I don't think they see it as such. It is a feeling more of being extremely over protected. Those things that we would see as rights are done for them but there is a class divide to deal with too. The poor generally don't get treated nearly so much that way and they might just not even realize their restrictions. There is only a tiny middle class, and the rich women do feel those restrictions and are working against them. So if you see or hear some protesting it is usually only from the wealthy class women.
    "Any jackass can kick down a barn," former U.S. Houston Speaker Sam Rayburn once said with his famous Texas bluntness, "but it takes a good carpenter to build one."

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    FGM in Sweden: School where every single girl in one class underwent procedure exposed (FGM = female genital mutilation)

    Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal
    The report estimated that 1,400 children had been sexually abused in the town between 1997 and 2013, predominantly by gangs of British-Pakistani men. Abuses described included abduction, rape, torture and sex trafficking of children.
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    I am opposed to the repression of women that goes on in Muslim countries.

    As to your suggestion that slavery is returning to the west by the establishment of Sharia law, this is a sensationalist claim made by evangelical Christians, Tea Partiers and other islamophobes. An attempt to instate sharia law in the US would not be tolerated.

    I support efforts by Muslims to bring reform to their traditions, from making women equals with men to stopping the persecution of homosexuals.
    I'm opposed to patriarchy and homophobia, whether it is the Muslim or the Christian variety.
    And I'm opposed to fanatical adherents of a corrupted form of one Abrahamic religion persecuting fanatical adherents of a corrupted form of another Abrahamic religion.
    Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!

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    The only impetus towards more restrictive laws comes to us from the so called Christians (really a version of a Christian Taliban) who it seems want to have some ideal Christian state instead of freedom of conscience. Folks it has been tried before and failed miserably. Unlike times in the past, which have failed, this time we have such things as electronic surveillance which is merely one more means to hang ourselves. We already have cameras everywhere, and facial recognition software. Given the high technology here in America, it could become a nightmare place to live.

    I remember in Saudi Arabia there were hundreds of "religious police" walking around the city who could on a moment's notice begin whipping a person who they considered violators of the religious laws.
    "Any jackass can kick down a barn," former U.S. Houston Speaker Sam Rayburn once said with his famous Texas bluntness, "but it takes a good carpenter to build one."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zathrus View Post
    I am opposed to the repression of women that goes on in Muslim countries.

    As to your suggestion that slavery is returning to the west by the establishment of Sharia law, this is a sensationalist claim made by evangelical Christians, Tea Partiers and other islamophobes. An attempt to instate sharia law in the US would not be tolerated.

    I support efforts by Muslims to bring reform to their traditions, from making women equals with men to stopping the persecution of homosexuals.
    I'm opposed to patriarchy and homophobia, whether it is the Muslim or the Christian variety.
    And I'm opposed to fanatical adherents of a corrupted form of one Abrahamic religion persecuting fanatical adherents of a corrupted form of another Abrahamic religion.
    If I'd been born 40 years earlier, I'd have been subjected to foot binding. Women traditionally have not enjoyed a very good position in Chinese society, or any other for that matter.

    Its only in the last few years, a heartbeat in human history, that any women anywhere had a
    chance to be any more than a slave.

    On slavery "returning" to the west, it never left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taikoo View Post
    Its only in the last few years, a heartbeat in human history, that any women anywhere had a
    chance to be any more than a slave.
    That's not really true, though...Women have been at the head of some of the most powerful nations in history - though certainly not in equal distribution to men.

    But ignoring genetic differences which account for that is not very scientific.

    Are you getting philosophical? I believe we're all slaves to debt - however, physical slavery did leave the West. It's more mental now.

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    I went to the beach on vacation a couple of years ago, and our motel next door neighbors were a young Muslim family with two little boys.
    It was 98F outside and the woman was sitting in the sand wrapped completely in black, and here I was enjoying the feeling of the cool ocean swishing back and forth on my skin.
    She had to be broiling, but her husband and children were running around in shorts splashing and playing in the water.
    I couldn't help feeling incredibly sorry that this woman (who was no different than me) would never be able to feel the ocean on her skin, because she was born into a world that sees her as less than.
    I couldn't help wondering how her husband and sons could look at her in that kind of misery and think it was ok.
    I got out of the water, because I couldn't enjoy it if she couldn't.
    We can thank (mostly) Abrahamic religions for our culture that treats women as second class humans.
    We can also thank women, who refuse to stand up for themselves, much less each other.
    I personally have spent my whole life cleaning up after men, washing their clothes, dishes, children, cars, floors, etc. etc. because that's what my momma told me "good" wives do.
    I don't do it anymore. I don't even cook, unless I feel like it. I am not some man's slave, and I support organizations that are working to keep other women from being slaves as well.

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    Those black outfits are hardly thick wool, they are made from some of the lightest fabrics available. Still, I tend to agree with you. The theory is they don't want other males ogling their wives and other young women. Keeping them safer while in society. (Its just a theory) In Muslim society the women are to blame when anything like rape occurs. Which is entirely unfair.
    They don't wear them in their own homes.

    The real problem comes when out and about the religious police see them lifting that veil just to prevent themselves from stumbling or to serve others, it can mean a beating. (and it does depend upon the strictness of that particular officer.)
    "Any jackass can kick down a barn," former U.S. Houston Speaker Sam Rayburn once said with his famous Texas bluntness, "but it takes a good carpenter to build one."

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