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Thread: The Kingdom of God is Within You...

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    There are writings that are inspired of God but not a part of the Bible. I think the same of Enoch, that is the Enoch that was written long ago, not the esoteric "Enoch."
    True that the book of Enoch is not part of most bibles today, but it is in some.
    I am fairly confident why most bible authorities removed the book of Enoch from their canons was due to the metaphors that are even more surreal than the metaphors in the book of Revelation.
    When, however, you understand what these metaphors represent, the surreal then becomes logical.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    If a person has heard and believed the gospel, the gift of holy spirit dwells in him (Eph 1:13). If a person has confessed Jesus Christ as Lord and believes God raised him from the dead, that person shall be saved (Rom 10:9). This applies to anyone, even JWs.


    Not your call, Dottie.


    Yes they are. But they, like you, do not understand who Jesus Christ is. They think he is Michael, the angel. You think he is God. Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the human messiah. He is a man.


    I thought that for most Trinitarians Jesus was the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity.
    That is not what Ephesians says. It describes what happened to the believers in Ephesis. Does not say believing means the Holy Spirit fills a person. Not at all. There is no time indication that "when" they believed, they were filled automatically with the HOly Spirit. That is Christianity by law or rote. Say the right words...believe the right things and spiritual things automatically happen. Those who demand God has filled people when they did something men told them to do do not know about what it is to be filled iwth the Holy Spirit. God does not work like a machine...push the buttons, say the right things, and God must do one's bidding.
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    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    That is not what Ephesians says. It describes what happened to the believers in Ephesis. Does not say believing means the Holy Spirit fills a person. Not at all. There is no time indication that "when" they believed, they were filled automatically with the HOly Spirit.
    Read it for yourself:

    Eph 1:
    13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

    Don't like the KJV?

    (NIV) And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

    (ESV) In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

    (NRSV) In him you also, when you had heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and had believed in him, were marked with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit;

    (ASV) in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,



    That is Christianity by law or rote. Say the right words...believe the right things and spiritual things automatically happen. Those who demand God has filled people when they did something men told them to do do not know about what it is to be filled iwth the Holy Spirit. God does not work like a machine...push the buttons, say the right things, and God must do one's bidding.
    God promises that if a person confesses Jesus Christ as Lord and believes in his heart that God raised him from the dead, that person shall be saved.

    I'm sorry you do not believe it.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    Read it for yourself:

    Eph 1:
    13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

    Don't like the KJV?

    (NIV) And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

    (ESV) In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

    (NRSV) In him you also, when you had heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and had believed in him, were marked with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit;

    (ASV) in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

    It describes what the Ephesians experienced, always in past tense and always "you." There is no promise here that this is what happens everytime as an automatic promise. Paul did not write this to the Corinthians, nor the Galatians, nor the Philippians, nor Timothy. John and Peter never said it. He wrote to the Ephesians and all in the past tense, no future tense. I did read it Shroom. You should read it too.
    God promises that if a person confesses Jesus Christ as Lord and believes in his heart that God raised him from the dead, that person shall be saved.
    "Shall be saved" is future tense. Does not promise that they will then receive the Holy SPirit upon saying the right words.
    I'm sorry you do not believe it.
    I'm sorry you do not know the difference between being filled with the Holy Spirit and saying the right words. God is not an automatic machine. Push the right buttom and in pops the HS.
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  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    It describes what the Ephesians experienced, always in past tense and always "you." There is no promise here that this is what happens everytime as an automatic promise. Paul did not write this to the Corinthians, nor the Galatians, nor the Philippians, nor Timothy.
    Nor did he write them to you, apparently. Feel free to rip out all books of the bible that do not have your name in them. You would not be left with much.

    The church epistles are written directly to the Christian church. That includes you and me.

    John and Peter never said it.
    John wrote this:

    1 John 4:
    15) Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

    Peter wrote this:

    1 Pet 1:
    23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    But they did not write those words to Dottie, so feel free to dismiss them.

    He wrote to the Ephesians and all in the past tense, no future tense.
    Yes, the people he was writing to were already saved. They had already confessed Jesus Christ as Lord and believed God raised him from the dead.

    I did read it Shroom.
    Try comprehending it.

    You should read it too.
    I read those verses a lot.

    "Shall be saved" is future tense.
    That's right. The guarantee of salvation, that Christians SHALL BE saved, is the gift of holy spirit sealed within every Christian.

    Does not promise that they will then receive the Holy SPirit upon saying the right words.
    It promises that if people hear the gospel and believe it, they are sealed with the gift of holy spirit, the guarantee of salvation (Eph 1:13-14). It promises that if a person confesses Jesus Christ as Lord and believes in his heart that God raised him from the dead, that person shall be saved (Rom 10:9).

    I'm sorry you do not know the difference between being filled with the Holy Spirit and saying the right words.
    I understand both.

    God is not an automatic machine. Push the right buttom and in pops the HS.
    No buttons involved. If a person hears the gospel and believes it, he is sealed with the promised gift of holy spirit.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    You are a JW and so it is true that what you say applies to you. You are NOT the temple of the Lord and the Holy Spirit does not dwell in you. As for Christians, which you are not, we are the temple of the Lord, the dwelling place of God on earth. And He did dwell in the Holy of Holies, that is, His presence was literally there. The curtain was torn and that was then no longer the case. But JWs are not followers of Yeshua, the Son of God, the third person of the tri-une God.
    Once again, Dottie, your prejudice comes through.

    Are you the one who determines where the Holy Spirit resides?

    Your own words put you on the wrong side of "Christian," Dottie. Can you not see it?

    However, you are correct: I do not follow the heretical notion never mentioned in the Bible about a "tri-une" God.

    Could you please refer me to that scripture? I am very reasonable, Dottie. As a 12-year-old I disproved the trinity, to the chagrin of priests and bishops, who kept telling me it is not taught in the Bible, but inferred from it.

    God's word is in the Bible.

    Inferences are the words of Men, trying to reason around the scriptures for lack of faith in its contents.
    "You [the Father], the Only True God" -- Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by An Onymous Brother View Post
    Once again, Dottie, your prejudice comes through.
    Once again your lack of intellectual support comes through so you personally attack your opponent.
    Are you the one who determines where the Holy Spirit resides?
    Jesus said to judge a tree by its fruit. He does not think it prejudice to look at the fruit in a person's life.
    Your own words put you on the wrong side of "Christian," Dottie. Can you not see it?
    No one, including God, sees what is not there. But all JWs call all Christians on the "wrong side" because we don't obey the GB.
    However, you are correct: I do not follow the heretical notion never mentioned in the Bible about a "tri-une" God.
    You follow the heretical cult governed by the GB.
    Could you please refer me to that scripture? I am very reasonable, Dottie. As a 12-year-old I disproved the trinity, to the chagrin of priests and bishops, who kept telling me it is not taught in the Bible, but inferred from it.
    The GB is not mentioned in the Bible and you obey them without question. That man uses nomenclature to describe matters does not mean that matter is not real.

    Now I am not surprised that the priests and bishops (Catholic I assume since Protestants do not use "priest" but "pastor") could not explain to you your error as they too obey the teachings of men or a man without question or thinking. They too have a special Bible that changed the original to suit their doctrine but that was found out centuries ago.

    Jesus talked about himself being with God before he walked the earth. He was "returning to God" from whence he came. The case for Jesus being God is solid whatever word one wants to use. Now I know from previous encounters that the JWs deny many things Christains believe and wrote a special Bible all for themselves. There is no arguing with you as you believe the GB teaching without question, as I said.

    Your story only shows that the Catholic leadership cannot defend what they believe either but that is true for cults or cultlike organizations where one man or one committee tells all the adherents what to believe. That is all your story shows and I do believe it. That a 12 year old can put the Catholic priesthood to shame is believable.
    God's word is in the Bible.
    Yes and "Before Abraham was, I am" makes Jesus the I am and is God and is with God.
    Inferences are the words of Men, trying to reason around the scriptures for lack of faith in its contents.
    Well, the JWs do not have the Word of God but an interpretation changed to suit the GB. If you don't like tri-unity, I do not mind simply calling Jesus God the Son. No problem. Leaving out the word you dislike changes nothing. Jesus was never an angel. God is One and yet in the Old Testament was in more than one place at the same time. The Spirit of God is God and is with God too althought sometimes moving over the surface of the waters and sometimes in or on people. One and yet more than one. I did not write the Bible, I just read it and believe it as written. (That JWs fuss over the word trinity shows their arguments very weak indeed...we just need to drop the word and your argument is gone.)
    Last edited by Dottie; 04-13-2017 at 12:55 AM.
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  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Once again your lack of intellectual support comes through so you personally attack your opponent.
    You mean like:
    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    You are a JW and so it is true that what you say applies to you. You are NOT the temple of the Lord and the Holy Spirit does not dwell in you.
    Just so we get these terms squared away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Jesus said to judge a tree by its fruit. He does not think it prejudice to look at the fruit in a person's life.
    And, you see how much of my life, again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    No one, including God, sees what is not there. But all JWs call all Christians on the "wrong side" because we don't obey the GB.
    You see a "triune god" that Jesus never mentioned, and since he never talked about it, it is because he never saw it in Heaven when he was with his father. That is why I consider all trinitarians on the "wrong side". I have since I was 13 and that was 30 years before I talked to my first JW or even knew what "GB" was, other than the code for UK license plates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    You follow the heretical cult governed by the GB.
    You follow the heretical TG (Triune God). Makes us even, I guess, since to any heretical trinitarian, I would be heretical, by definition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    The GB is not mentioned in the Bible and you obey them without question. That man uses nomenclature to describe matters does not mean that matter is not real.
    Nor is this "triune god"-- yet, you worship it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Now I am not surprised that the priests and bishops (Catholic I assume since Protestants do not use "priest" but "pastor") could not explain to you your error as they too obey the teachings of men or a man without question or thinking. They too have a special Bible that changed the original to suit their doctrine but that was found out centuries ago.
    Yeah. I know. Ever since they invented Satan's Idol, the "trinity", it has been all downhill since then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Jesus talked about himself being with God before he walked the earth. He was "returning to God" from whence he came. The case for Jesus being God is solid whatever word one wants to use.
    Did you just completely ignore what you wrote, there?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Jesus talked about himself being with God before he walked the earth. He was "returning to God" from whence he came. The case for Jesus being God is solid.
    On what planet? How did you make that leap from ("being with God" and ""returning to God")==BEING GOD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Now I know from previous encounters that the JWs deny many things Christains believe and wrote a special Bible all for themselves. There is no arguing with you as you believe the GB teaching without question, as I said.
    You seem not to know that the NWT was translated many decades *after* those "many things Christains believe" were disproven, mostly with the KJV. Gonna put that translation on trial, too?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Your story only shows that the Catholic leadership cannot defend what they believe either but that is true for cults or cultlike organizations where one man or one committee tells all the adherents what to believe. That is all your story shows and I do believe it. That a 12 year old can put the Catholic priesthood to shame is believable.
    Yes and "Before Abraham was, I am" makes Jesus the I am and is God and is with God.
    Well, the JWs do not have the Word of God but an interpretation changed to suit the GB. If you don't like tri-unity, I do not mind simply calling Jesus God the Son. No problem. Leaving out the word you dislike changes nothing. Jesus was never an angel. God is One and yet in the Old Testament was in more than one place at the same time. The Spirit of God is God and is with God too althought sometimes moving over the surface of the waters and sometimes in or on people. One and yet more than one. I did not write the Bible, I just read it and believe it as written. (That JWs fuss over the word trinity shows their arguments very weak indeed...we just need to drop the word and your argument is gone.)
    Saying "Before Abraham was, I am" is Jesus claiming to be God just makes Jesus a liar and glory seeker, because he said there are two witnesses for him, and if he is God, then there is only one witness. He also said, if he glorified himself, his glory was false, yet claiming to be God is claiming the greatest glory in the universe. John 8--positive proof Jesus is NOT God, or else, he is a liar.

    So, you see, disproving the trinity is child's play. Even as a 12 year old I could do it.

    Didn't neet no WT pubs for it either.

    Just a Bible. Not even the NWT. Check it out. I never quote from the NWT or any WT publications, unless requested to.

    PS. Please show the scripture with "God the Son". We gotta keep to your standards of
    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    The GB is not mentioned in the Bible and you obey them without question.
    That do not seem to apply to "Tri-unity", "trinity", because apparently questioning these not being in the Bible
    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    shows their arguments very weak indeed
    "You [the Father], the Only True God" -- Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)

  9. #159
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    I believe the sudden destruction spoken of in 1 Thessalonians 5:3 represents the Lord who is in everyone currently, separating himself from the worshipers of the beast.
    When He (the light) then separates Himself from the godless is when the world will be in gross darkness, while the Lord (the light) will shine upon the believing (Isaiah 60:2).

    1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

    Isaiah 60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

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