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Thread: The Kingdom of God is Within You...

  1. #141
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    Dear Ludwig

    In 2 P we might not be dealing with a brother....2 Gospels.. . rejects Peter and Paul... haven't heard view on John. Doesn't look promising
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndpillar View Post
    Dear lud,
    The majority consensus, is that 2 Peter was most probably written after Peter's death, and by someone other than Peter. As for Peter himself, you have chosen one of the staffs/shepherds, the "worthless shepherd", taken to "pasture" the "flock doomed to slaughter" (Zech 11:7 & 17), to build your house upon. (Mt 7:23-27) That only results in disaster. As for Paul being a "brother", Paul was the other "staff" taken to "pasture" the "flock doomed to slaughter" (Zech 11:10). That puts you as following the staffs taken to "pasture" the "flock doomed to slaughter". That would be the "broad" "way" leading to "destruction" (Mt 7:13). As for "darkness", according to Isaiah 8:20, anyone not in alignment with the "law and the testimonies" has no "dawn". Your Hebrews 8:13, is not only not in alignment, it calls the "first" obsolete, and "ready to disappear".
    So you also don't believe in 2 Peter. I'm afraid this makes you among those by the wayside of whom the devil has come and snatched away belief in the Word of God.

    Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
    12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by ludwig View Post
    So you also don't believe in 2 Peter. I'm afraid this makes you among those by the wayside of whom the devil has come and snatched away belief in the Word of God.

    Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
    12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
    I have often wondered if those who insist 2 Peter was not written by Peter or such if they would ever agree to submit to a test of their ability to tell who wrote what in a test where the authors are still alive. I would love to get Bible "experts" in a room, give them 20 texts and ask them to sort them into groups according to who they think wrote what. No knowing how many authors but solely from the style put the pieces together. The real authors would have written the texts sometimes a few decades apart but they would not be told this. It is easy to make wild ascertions when the authors who can contradict are dead. It is another matter when the authors can stand and say whether they actually wrote what was given or not.

    I wonder if 2P accepts the writings of John. If not, there is not much left of the NT that he accepts. I have seen the progress of those who start sheding books of the Bible. It is like a run in a finely woven piece of material. Starts unraveling and separating the garment. It is the same with those who start questioning other bits, like Noah or Genesis. Starts with a merely intellectual disagreement with the text and for some, with time, the Son of God is jettisoned as well. A little leaven affects the whole loaf after a while.
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    I have often wondered if those who insist 2 Peter was not written by Peter or such if they would ever agree to submit to a test of their ability to tell who wrote what in a test where the authors are still alive. I would love to get Bible "experts" in a room, give them 20 texts and ask them to sort them into groups according to who they think wrote what. No knowing how many authors but solely from the style put the pieces together. The real authors would have written the texts sometimes a few decades apart but they would not be told this. It is easy to make wild ascertions when the authors who can contradict are dead. It is another matter when the authors can stand and say whether they actually wrote what was given or not.

    I wonder if 2P accepts the writings of John. If not, there is not much left of the NT that he accepts. I have seen the progress of those who start sheding books of the Bible. It is like a run in a finely woven piece of material. Starts unraveling and separating the garment. It is the same with those who start questioning other bits, like Noah or Genesis. Starts with a merely intellectual disagreement with the text and for some, with time, the Son of God is jettisoned as well. A little leaven affects the whole loaf after a while.
    I think one has to read the manuscripts to see which ones our hearts tell us are truth or not truth.
    Personally, I find the book of Enoch to be truth. But then, that's because I understand the metaphors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ludwig View Post
    So you also don't believe in 2 Peter. I'm afraid this makes you among those by the wayside of whom the devil has come and snatched away belief in the Word of God.

    Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
    12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
    Dear lud,
    I think you have been "snared" by saying "rashly", "it is holy", before making "inquiry". (Proverbs 20:25) Once so "snared" one is pulled into the pit.

    New American Standard Bible Proverbs 20:25
    It is a trap for a man to say rashly, "It is holy!" And after the vows to make inquiry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndpillar View Post
    Dear lud,
    I think you have been "snared" by saying "rashly", "it is holy", before making "inquiry". (Proverbs 20:25) Once so "snared" one is pulled into the pit.

    New American Standard Bible Proverbs 20:25
    It is a trap for a man to say rashly, "It is holy!" And after the vows to make inquiry.
    You reject most of the New Testament; you therefore have little of the Word to have faith in. And with little of the Word to have faith in, you will then likely be among those who fall away when the Lord once again shakes heaven and earth (Hebrews 12:26-27), in what will be the great tribulation on earth (Rev 12:12) when the devil and his angels are cast to the earth (Rev 12:9).

    Hebrews 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
    27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

    Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
    12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ludwig View Post
    And so God is within us; we are the temple of the Lord according to scriptures.
    Not really.

    The Holy Spirit, which we receive from God, dwells in us. God does not even fit in the heavens above, let alone in a human. Nor did He actually dwell in the original Temples. In the original, the Ark dwelled. In the second Temple, not even that.

    *We*, us, what makes us, us is the Temple of God.

    Our bodies are simple flesh, they are the Temple of the Holy Spirit.

    Paul made distinction between the two, all the way back in Romans.
    "You [the Father], the Only True God" -- Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)

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    Quote Originally Posted by An Onymous Brother View Post
    Not really.

    The Holy Spirit, which we receive from God, dwells in us. God does not even fit in the heavens above, let alone in a human. Nor did He actually dwell in the original Temples. In the original, the Ark dwelled. In the second Temple, not even that.

    *We*, us, what makes us, us is the Temple of God.

    Our bodies are simple flesh, they are the Temple of the Holy Spirit.

    Paul made distinction between the two, all the way back in Romans.
    You are a JW and so it is true that what you say applies to you. You are NOT the temple of the Lord and the Holy Spirit does not dwell in you. As for Christians, which you are not, we are the temple of the Lord, the dwelling place of God on earth. And He did dwell in the Holy of Holies, that is, His presence was literally there. The curtain was torn and that was then no longer the case. But JWs are not followers of Yeshua, the Son of God, the third person of the tri-une God.
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ludwig View Post
    I think one has to read the manuscripts to see which ones our hearts tell us are truth or not truth.
    Personally, I find the book of Enoch to be truth. But then, that's because I understand the metaphors.
    There are writings that are inspired of God but not a part of the Bible. I think the same of Enoch, that is the Enoch that was written long ago, not the esoteric "Enoch."
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    You are a JW and so it is true that what you say applies to you. You are NOT the temple of the Lord and the Holy Spirit does not dwell in you.
    If a person has heard and believed the gospel, the gift of holy spirit dwells in him (Eph 1:13). If a person has confessed Jesus Christ as Lord and believes God raised him from the dead, that person shall be saved (Rom 10:9). This applies to anyone, even JWs.

    As for Christians, which you are not
    Not your call, Dottie.

    we are the temple of the Lord, the dwelling place of God on earth. And He did dwell in the Holy of Holies, that is, His presence was literally there. The curtain was torn and that was then no longer the case. But JWs are not followers of Yeshua, the Son of God
    Yes they are. But they, like you, do not understand who Jesus Christ is. They think he is Michael, the angel. You think he is God. Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the human messiah. He is a man.

    the third person of the tri-une God.
    I thought that for most Trinitarians Jesus was the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity.

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