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Thread: Misinterpretation of 1 John 3:9

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    Quote Originally Posted by An Onymous Brother View Post
    I did something on faith rather than nothing on fear of doing the wrong thing.

    I have answered your challenges three times now.

    Satan only tried Job twice, and Jesus thrice.

    Do you look to exceed him with me?

    You forgot the original issue in your attempts to squirm out of a simple decision and now, three times, to get someone to stumble as you did.

    When you understand why that is, you might understand how God could call Abraham His friend.
    The reason why I am doing that is because I wanted to bring the scenario into a place where you didn't have a solution. You had plenty of time to think about that scenario, and come up with a good solution that didn't involve sinning. In the heat of the moment, not everyone's mind thinks that quickly. Some do, but not everyone; some people are quick thinkers, some are slower.

    If I did not know the answer - if I did not know how to escape the situation - doing nothing and asking God to save me, the woman and my family, would be more of faith than spending a minute trying to come up with a witty solution. That is not out of fear of doing wrong, it is acknowledging God's ability where mine is lacking.

    If you trust in God to direct you, and he shows you the way out, and gives you the grace to carry it out, then that is of faith. Faith is not knowing that God will help you out. Faith is knowing that you do the will of God, and that he does the works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MM501 View Post
    But if there is no capability to do otherwise, that, to me, would be unfair judgment.

    Can a man blind from birth be condemned because he cannot see?
    If a blind man believes in his heart that he is able to see, whenever he chooses. If he says to others "Use your eyes!", and thinks to himself "I wouldn't have bumped into that wall." Then no, that is not unfair judgement at all. He is judged by his own standard, that he has put on himself.

    And if God then says, "If you say you can see, then walk this path that I will show you, and I will make a note of the times you stumble, and then I will judge how well you traveled it." How is that unjust? Especially when the man agrees to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndpillar View Post
    Dear ob,
    You seem to fail to realize that the "awesome day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31) is but a day of judgment (Amos 5:20). At that time, the "tares" will be "gathered up" and dealt with (Mt 13:30). "Tares" are those who appear to be similar to wheat, but have no fruit. According to Mt 13:41, it would be those who "commit lawlessness", which would be indicative of the followers of Paul and his Romans 7:6. As for "Christians" "become a new creation", it may be so, but they apparently are heading toward "destruction" (Mt 7:13), and this in spite of any obfuscation you might want to apply.

    New American Standard Bible Amos 5:20
    Will not the day of the LORD be darkness instead of light, Even gloom with no brightness in it?
    Not at all. The Great Day of the Lord is "a" day of judgment, but not "the" day of Judgment.

    But, since you are sinless, I would not worry too much.

    I'm not so sanguine about my perfection, however, so I'll keep to the scriptures, just to be safe, and keep confessing my sins on those occasions I stray.

    8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

    And keep praying, as Jesus taught his disciples

    “Father, hallowed be your name.
    Your kingdom come.
    Give us each day our daily bread,
    and forgive us our sins,
    for we ourselves forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
    And lead us not into temptation.”

    'Luck on keeping your 1000 sinless average.
    "You [the Father], the Only True God" -- Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jig View Post
    You could preach the gospel to the shotgun wielding man so that his murderous rage might pass away.
    You could, if it were one of the options. The point I am making here is I do not like to say "that is absolutely a sin," when the judgment point can be so blurred we lose perspective on what is right for what is self-righteous.

    Others seem quite comfortable placing themselves in Jesus' seat and making these judgments about others, but when it comes to themselves, they cannot even take a stand, doing whatever they can to avoid having to make any choice at all.

    You did, however, take a stand. And your stand shows me I am still not as wise as I would like to be.
    "You [the Father], the Only True God" -- Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)

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    Quote Originally Posted by An Onymous Brother View Post
    Not at all. The Great Day of the Lord is "a" day of judgment, but not "the" day of Judgment.

    But, since you are sinless, I would not worry too much.

    I'm not so sanguine about my perfection, however, so I'll keep to the scriptures, just to be safe, and keep confessing my sins on those occasions I stray.

    8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

    And keep praying, as Jesus taught his disciples

    “Father, hallowed be your name.
    Your kingdom come.
    Give us each day our daily bread,
    and forgive us our sins,
    for we ourselves forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
    And lead us not into temptation.”

    'Luck on keeping your 1000 sinless average.
    Dear ob,
    Who do you confess your sins too (James 5:16), and are they actually able to have you healed (have your sins forgiven)? Maybe it would be helpful if you could define "sin", and being "born of God".

    1 John 3:8," the one who practices sin is of the devil".

    1 John 3:9, "No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because is born of God"

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    Quote Originally Posted by hayden View Post
    The reason why I am doing that is because I wanted to bring the scenario into a place where you didn't have a solution. You had plenty of time to think about that scenario, and come up with a good solution that didn't involve sinning. In the heat of the moment, not everyone's mind thinks that quickly. Some do, but not everyone; some people are quick thinkers, some are slower.

    If I did not know the answer - if I did not know how to escape the situation - doing nothing and asking God to save me, the woman and my family, would be more of faith than spending a minute trying to come up with a witty solution. That is not out of fear of doing wrong, it is acknowledging God's ability where mine is lacking.

    If you trust in God to direct you, and he shows you the way out, and gives you the grace to carry it out, then that is of faith. Faith is not knowing that God will help you out. Faith is knowing that you do the will of God, and that he does the works.
    Again, the point of the exercise

    In this case, the scenario is quite unfairly rigged. But, there are times these scenarios do pop up.

    So, I never try to judge. And I even fail miserably at that many times.
    No answer was required. But you chose to judge, instead. And, then you refused to make any choice, standing paralyzed in fear of doing the wrong thing.

    Hezekiah trusted in God, and God came to his aid in spectacular fashion against Sennacherib.

    But he still prepared for a siege.

    You did nothing, out of fear of being wrong.
    "You [the Father], the Only True God" -- Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndpillar View Post
    Dear ob,
    Who do you confess your sins too (James 5:16), and are they actually able to have you healed (have your sins forgiven)? Maybe it would be helpful if you could define "sin", and being "born of God".

    1 John 3:8," the one who practices sin is of the devil".

    1 John 3:9, "No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because is born of God"

    8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.


    "practices" is doing as a matter of course.

    A Christian no longer sins as a matter of course, since sin is now against his nature, as he is born of God.

    Those who sin as a matter of course are of the devil.

    James 5:14~15 seems to cover the rest.
    "You [the Father], the Only True God" -- Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)

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    Quote Originally Posted by An Onymous Brother View Post
    You could, if it were one of the options. The point I am making here is I do not like to say "that is absolutely a sin," when the judgment point can be so blurred we lose perspective on what is right for what is self-righteous.

    Others seem quite comfortable placing themselves in Jesus' seat and making these judgments about others, but when it comes to themselves, they cannot even take a stand, doing whatever they can to avoid having to make any choice at all.
    You're right we need to avoid self righteousness, but God helps us in this way by giving us what we should say when it's needed. Sometimes people will listen. Sometime it might cause our deaths.
    God even let the Apostles know when the end of their ministry was near.

    You did, however, take a stand. And your stand shows me I am still not as wise as I would like to be.
    We all need to learn from what the Lord has taught us. We learn from each other by what He shows us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by An Onymous Brother View Post

    8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.


    "practices" is doing as a matter of course.

    A Christian no longer sins as a matter of course, since sin is now against his nature, as he is born of God.

    Those who sin as a matter of course are of the devil.

    James 5:14~15 seems to cover the rest.
    Dear ob,
    You seem to have ducked the question. Have you been restored from your sickness? Did you confess your sins to "one another" (James 5:16), have them pray for you, and be healed (sins forgiven). If you were not healed, why not? Did God not hear the prayers of your "brothers". Whose prayers does God listen to? As for you having sinned, no one is questioning that you have sinned. The problem seems to be did you repent, or do you continue in your sins. If you continue in your sins, are you a sinner? What happens to sinners? I am thinking that you didn't even seek the "kingdom of heaven" (Mt 6:33), or "His righteousness". I am thinking that the serpent said, you "surely shall not die", and you swallowed that fable hook line and sinker. And here you are sitting around waiting to be "taken up"/raptured, looking for the "day of the LORD" (Amos 5:20). I am thinking things may not work out as you had thought.

    1 John 3:8," the one who practices sin is of the devil".

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    [QUOTE=hayden;1316420][QUOTE=hayden;1316420][QUOTE]You believe that Jesus was lying to them to prevent flattery and pride? I think there are a few other verses you'll need to explain if you believe that.



    I do not believe Jesus was lying, these are your words, not mine Hayden. The Bible says Abel hasn't received the promise yet, he is still dead in his sins. He will receive them and be "Good" like God but he hasn't received them yet. AS it is written; "God is the God of the living". Jesus was speaking to a deceiver in this scripture you have chosen to use to support your "Come as you are doctrine". He had not completed God's will and was yet human. So it was not a lie to tell the deceiver, Don't call Me Good, there is only one good and that is God". It was also not a lie to call Abel "righteous "Good", because both Jesus, and by His Grace, I, know that Abel will both live and become "good" and nothing can "prosper against this fact" as you show in Isaiah. And not because of any of Abel's righteousness, because Abel, unlike Cain, chose the righteousness of God over his own version of righteousness. So his righteousness is of God, not anyone else.

    And it is also not a lie or contradiction for Jesus to call Himself "the Good Shepherd". Because like Paul said "He was what He was". Although Jesus was a man just like you and I, He was chosen for a purpose. Like Paul and John the Baptist, He was chosen for a purpose. Another important fact about Paul that you didn't talk about.

    I have no confusion about what the Bible teaches. It is simple, if you want eternal life, Do the righteousness of God, not the church or your own. That is what Jesus and God before Him, and the Apostles after Him has taught. It was not a lie for Jesus to tell this to the deceiver. And even though the deceiver said he obeyed, just like the rest of the MC of His time, we know from the story that he really just deceived himself. And Jesus told me to "Seek ye "FIRST" the Kingdom of God and HIS righteousness", so I would know what Commandments to obey. And when I Study to show myself approved I find that it is Christ's blood that gives me another chance at serving God, not the Levitical Priesthood ceremonies, animal sacrificial "works of the Law" that was added until the seed should come. But faith, shown by God's works,(Commandments, Holy Days, Creation Laws, Sabbaths) not my own as Abraham clearly demonstrated by obeying God's Works He created from the foundation of the world that we should walk in them. And like you say "Only God is Good, so therefore, only God's Work's are good.

    If we believe that "his righteousness" as a thing that he has shown us, and we try to emulate, then it fits with all of those verses you quoted, but it does not fit with Jesus' words. Because God has taught us to be good of ourselves, such that there is another who is good, aside from God. If we believe that no man does righteous works, then we deny those verses you quote, but it fits with Jesus' words.

    Again, this is your belief, but I disagree given what Jesus actually said. "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect". How is this not Jesus telling me to "emulate" Him.

    "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." And what was the "Righteousness" of the Pharisees?

    7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

    Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

    1Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
    Paul was part of the crowd that killed Jesus and His friends. God knocked him off his horse, blinded him for 3 days and force fed him the truth. If you want to compare yourself to Paul in this matter, go ahead. But to use Paul in your attempt to further the "come as you are" doctrine by attempting to say EVERYONE comes to God the same way is a deception and is not supported by the Bible. The Gentiles didn't convert this way and nowhere does the Bible teach to just wait in sin for God to turn you. Come as you are is not a Biblical doctrine, but the teaching does make a lot of money for the churches that teach it.

    15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

    Paul knew this "I am what I am". Jesus knew the truth about Him as well. "I am the good shepherd". No one here is lying Hayden, it's just that you don't understand their teaching as I do.

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