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Thread: Misinterpretation of 1 John 3:9

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    Default Misinterpretation of 1 John 3:9

    The verse reads..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
    Those who insist it "means" continue to commit sin habitually, seem to be unaware of the verses' inclusion of the "seeds'" ramifications.
    They must think that oak trees won't "habitually" bear acorns. Once in awhile, but not frequently, it will bear onions or pears.

    What can Godly seed bear besides Godly fruit?
    "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." (Ja 5:20)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    The verse reads..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
    Those who insist it "means" continue to commit sin habitually, seem to be unaware of the verses' inclusion of the "seeds'" ramifications.
    They must think that oak trees won't "habitually" bear acorns. Once in awhile, but not frequently, it will bear onions or pears.

    What can Godly seed bear besides Godly fruit?
    Thanks for pointing that out... "for his seed remaineth in him" rarely seems a focus in this verse.

    Strong's has "remaineth" (menō)

    - to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy):—abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry

    Certainly not the in and out of sin condition put forth by many.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    The verse reads..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
    Those who insist it "means" continue to commit sin habitually, seem to be unaware of the verses' inclusion of the "seeds'" ramifications.
    They must think that oak trees won't "habitually" bear acorns. Once in awhile, but not frequently, it will bear onions or pears.

    What can Godly seed bear besides Godly fruit?
    How come you two resist having this fruit as being seen in your life by everyone who works or lives with you? You insist there is godly fruit but when pressed to ask if anyone can see this fruit you do not want to have to have your "godly fruit" seen by anyone? "Fruit" is something that can be seen and enjoyed by others. There is no secret fruit.
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    How come you two resist having this fruit as being seen in your life by everyone who works or lives with you?
    As "faith cometh by hearing", it is doubtful you will be inclined to the truth on a forum of computers.
    I have offered you a place to stay and "watch me" but you weren't interested.
    What am I to take from that attitude?

    You insist there is godly fruit but when pressed to ask if anyone can see this fruit you do not want to have to have your "godly fruit" seen by anyone? "Fruit" is something that can be seen and enjoyed by others. There is no secret fruit.
    I guess my continuous defense of life without sin, (thanks be to God), wasn't enough, huh?
    Do you really see no contrast with the folks who continuously make excuses for their sin?

    My "Godly fruit" in manifested by your, and others' resistance to it.
    "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." (Ja 5:20)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    As "faith cometh by hearing", it is doubtful you will be inclined to the truth on a forum of computers.
    I have offered you a place to stay and "watch me" but you weren't interested.
    What am I to take from that attitude?
    You paying for the airfare? I lost part of my job. What about asking those who live and work with you to write a small paragraph telling us in detail how you are perfect and sinless and freed from sin and holy? If you are bearing fruit, they ought to know it.
    I guess my continuous defense of life without sin, (thanks be to God), wasn't enough, huh?
    No, and it is not enough for anyone either. You are supposed to bear fruit that people can see, not talk about the fruit that is supposed to be there from the scripture.
    Do you really see no contrast with the folks who continuously make excuses for their sin?
    Who makes excuses for their sin besides the OSAS bunch who claim all future sin is already forgiven?
    My "Godly fruit" in manifested by your, and others' resistance to it.
    AH, no wonder you claim as you do. "Godly fruit" is supposed to be those who resist you not doing good things to others and refraining from selfish deeds 24/7. No wonder you think you are sinless/without sin/free from sin/holy. The measure of you being so is us asking where the fruit is. That is really easy. I know others here who get a LOT MORE resistance that you do. I guess they really are holier than thou by that standard.
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    You paying for the airfare? I lost part of my job. What about asking those who live and work with you to write a small paragraph telling us in detail how you are perfect and sinless and freed from sin and holy? If you are bearing fruit, they ought to know it.
    No, and it is not enough for anyone either. You are supposed to bear fruit that people can see, not talk about the fruit that is supposed to be there from the scripture.
    Who makes excuses for their sin besides the OSAS bunch who claim all future sin is already forgiven?
    AH, no wonder you claim as you do. "Godly fruit" is supposed to be those who resist you not doing good things to others and refraining from selfish deeds 24/7. No wonder you think you are sinless/without sin/free from sin/holy. The measure of you being so is us asking where the fruit is. That is really easy. I know others here who get a LOT MORE resistance that you do. I guess they really are holier than thou by that standard.
    I'll pay for yours' and an escorts' airfare.
    I will provide a place to stay, and money to eat with.
    I will not provide any moneys till you have stayed 3 days, at which point I will fully reimburse you.
    After the third day I will continue to house and feed you till you decide to stay, or leave, no matter what you decide.
    I just wonder how many folks Jesus had to pay to come and and be a witness for Him.
    "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." (Ja 5:20)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    I'll pay for yours' and an escorts' airfare.
    I will provide a place to stay, and money to eat with.
    I will not provide any moneys till you have stayed 3 days, at which point I will fully reimburse you.
    After the third day I will continue to house and feed you till you decide to stay, or leave, no matter what you decide.
    I just wonder how many folks Jesus had to pay to come and and be a witness for Him.
    You realize we are in Europe right? Why not opt for the cheaper version and ask someone who works with you if you are free from wrong doing? They have more than three days observation. Or alternatively, do you want to come here? Or you could just tell us plainly that "yes everyone who works with me or lives with me or knows me can testify that I do not sin at all. I never do any wrong to anyone and never fail to do good to people when presented to me." Why not just get someones to do that...and yes it ought to be a few. I mean if you are bearing this fruit, everyone ought to testify of this.

    You see, the problem is that your posts DO NOT REPRESENT the mind of a man who is without sin. Your posts are not on the level of Paul or any of the writers of the New Testament, and this ought to be there, and none of them claimed to be sinless/without sin/freed from all sin 24/7 as expressed in "I am without sin."

    Most Christians say we are freed from the power of sin but still live in this world where sin has entered. Most Christians find that God works on our areas of sin over the years asking us to refrain from particular sins and giving us the power to do so. We do not say "I am without sin" which is what you and MM are saying of yourselves.

    You two have arrived and yet we do not see the level of holiness that should be there in the life of a man without sin. If you are without sin (to use the Biblical words) why does your thinking, i.e., the posts, do not reflect this kind of holiness. And holiness is the same as without sin. It is not there boys so we do not believe you. And we are OBLIGATED to judge these sorts of claims.
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    You realize we are in Europe right? Why not opt for the cheaper version and ask someone who works with you if you are free from wrong doing? They have more than three days observation. Or alternatively, do you want to come here? Or you could just tell us plainly that "yes everyone who works with me or lives with me or knows me can testify that I do not sin at all. I never do any wrong to anyone and never fail to do good to people when presented to me." Why not just get someones to do that...and yes it ought to be a few. I mean if you are bearing this fruit, everyone ought to testify of this.

    You see, the problem is that your posts DO NOT REPRESENT the mind of a man who is without sin. Your posts are not on the level of Paul or any of the writers of the New Testament, and this ought to be there, and none of them claimed to be sinless/without sin/freed from all sin 24/7 as expressed in "I am without sin."

    Most Christians say we are freed from the power of sin but still live in this world where sin has entered. Most Christians find that God works on our areas of sin over the years asking us to refrain from particular sins and giving us the power to do so. We do not say "I am without sin" which is what you and MM are saying of yourselves.

    You two have arrived and yet we do not see the level of holiness that should be there in the life of a man without sin. If you are without sin (to use the Biblical words) why does your thinking, i.e., the posts, do not reflect this kind of holiness. And holiness is the same as without sin. It is not there boys so we do not believe you. And we are OBLIGATED to judge these sorts of claims.
    I do realize you are in Europe.
    Any testimony I offer will not be satisfactory to you, as you will imply that I made them up.
    I will go there if you pay for me, as I have offered you.

    If you don't like my posts, you will absolutely hate me.
    Your own defense of sin announces that you hate God, (Matt 6:24), so why would I expect better from you?
    "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." (Ja 5:20)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    The verse reads..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
    Those who insist it "means" continue to commit sin habitually, seem to be unaware of the verses' inclusion of the "seeds'" ramifications.
    They must think that oak trees won't "habitually" bear acorns. Once in awhile, but not frequently, it will bear onions or pears.

    What can Godly seed bear besides Godly fruit?
    The verse is both simple in grammar and Types abound to explain it.

    In John 3:3-6 our Lord Jesus sets forth an ADDITIONAL birth for the spirit of man. The first is in the womb. Every man, from the best to the worst, and most healthy to the most impaired, has a human spirit. This spirit is his vitality (Jas.2:26). It is the breath of God, and when a man dies it returns to God Who gave it (Eccl.12:7). IT IS THIS HUMAN SPIRIT ONLY THAT UNDERGOES A REBIRTH. John 3:6 is clear. Neither the soul of a man, nor the body of a man undergoes this new birth. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

    So when 1st John 3:9 says; "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God", it ONLY SPEAKS OF THE SPIRIT OF MAN. The soul, with its three parts of mind, emotions and will, and the body with the Law of Sin and Death (Romans 7) in it, ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THIS VERSE. They are NOT born of the Holy Spirit, but of the WOMB. The salvation of the soul is by transformation, and the salvation of the body is by resurrection. Only the spirit of a Christian is born again and it CANNOT SIN as God abides in it.

    Now, turning to man as the Temple of God, we see that both the man and the Temple were made of three parts. The Temple has (1) an outer court, (2) a Holy Place, and (3) the Holy of Holies. A man is (1) body, (2) soul, and (3) spirit. When God came to dwell WITH Israel, He lived in the Holy of Holies ONLY. When God comes to live IN a Christian, He lives in the spirit of man ONLY. When Nebuchadnezzar approached to destroy Jerusalem and the Temple because of Israel's sins, God does not allow Himself to be profaned and the first Chapters of Ezekiel show us the procedure of God LEAVING the Temple before its destruction. But it is NOT SO with the spirit of man.

    When God comes to dwell in the spirit of man He will not leave because the process was achieved by (1) the death and resurrection of His Son Jesus Whom He highly honors, and (2) by the faith of a man, which sets off an irreversible process of sanctification. So what does God "WHOSE SEED ABIDES" in the spirit of man, do when the man sins with a sin INSIDE himself (1st Cor.6:18). God kills the man! In 1 Corinthians 5:5 God commands the Church, with the authority of an Apostle, in the case of a sin INSIDE, "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus"! That is, God no longer lets the sins of men which can defile Him, to continue indefinitely. So it was also in the case of Ananias and Sapphira (a lie to the Holy Spirit), and Hymenaeus and Alexander (who blasphemed). God ends their physical life so that the spirit remains undefiled.

    The point I would like to make is that 1st John 3:9 reveals that God dwells in the spirit of man. That He will not be removed. And the the spirit of a reborn man DOES NOT SIN because of God in it. But the other parts of the man, the soul and the body CAN STILL SIN, and the REMEDY for this is found in Luke 9
    1. Take up a cross daily (for the DENIAL and ending of the flesh)
    2. Deny the demands of the soul, or, LOSE YOUR (soul) life

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    I do realize you are in Europe.
    Any testimony I offer will not be satisfactory to you, as you will imply that I made them up.
    I will go there if you pay for me, as I have offered you.

    If you don't like my posts, you will absolutely hate me.
    Your own defense of sin announces that you hate God, (Matt 6:24), so why would I expect better from you?
    You are testifying falsely of me, a sin. Not only are you not free of sin/sinless/holy, you are not very far along in the kingdom of God. If you were, you'd be less concerned respecting you and more concerned with pleasing Him. I laid out the fruit of holiness. I said nothing against you personally until you sinned. Scripturally, I should tell you that you just sinned.
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

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