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Thread: Some ideas on Baptism

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Gillett View Post
    FCO Rachael you are reading what is not there!

    It does not say that they were baptised.
    Yipes Richard, I did not know YOU DID NOT KNOW, the elementary knowledge that being BAPTIZED IN the Spirit, was being BAPTIZED WITH the Holy SPIRIT, and is a man being FILLED with the HOLY SPIRIT, and a man being FILLED with the HOLY SPIRIT, is precisely the HOLY SPIRIT entering INSIDE of a man.

    The Scripture clearly informs the reader, THEY will FILLED with the Holy Spirit.

    Other Scripture clearly informs the reader, THEY were notified AHEAD of TIME to expect it.

    One accord does not mean Baptised in anyone's book
    So? Who said it did. They simply were gathered together in ONE PLACE and ONE FAITH, which is ONE ACCORD, the disciples, some women, about 120 people in all, who were all together FILLED with the Holy Spirit.

    And they were baptised in the Holy Spirit? Did you actually read what I wrote? The two are not dierectly linked.
    No where does the bible specify that one is necesary for the other!
    What are you talking about?

    One FAITHFULNESS, ie ONE FAITH TO GOD , absolutely is required, for individuals to receive the Holy Spirit. In the case of the disciples they all received the Holy Spirit at the same time, in the same place, along with over a hundred others.

    You are just imposing your belief onto Scripture instead of reading what Scripture is trying to tell you!
    No. I fully understand what is revealed.

    The disciples were baptised in the Holy Spirit by the command of Christ! Read it.
    No duh! Who said otherwise. Jesus IS the quickening Spirit. Christ is the Power! And it absolutely requires a recipient to have FAITH, which they all had confessed to having faith.

    Sheesh!
    Praise and Glory to Lord God Almighty, for His Great Name's Sake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Gillett View Post
    Not unless it is clarified and expounded. All you have is your interpetation of events. Then you search around for something that might confiorm it. That is not how to use Scripture. You start with what is written not with what you want to confirm. You can prove anything you like with Scripture - but that does not make it right or what Scripture was trying to tell you.

    Richard Gillett
    FYI ~ I have NEVER taught for a man to INTERPRET Scripture.

    God GIVES ME HIS UNDERSTANDING ~ I rely on His Understanding, regardless if YOU do or not.

    Jesus IS the TRUTH.
    Jesus IS the TEACHER.
    Jesus WAS manifested to be SEEN by men.
    Jesus IS the EXAMPLE.

    How many times do you need to be told, What He speaks is truth. What He shows by example is truth?

    Do you require to be reminded EVERY time Jesus speaks or says verily, verily, or watch, or see, or do as I do, that He is teaching?



    John.13

    [15] For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

    1Cor.10

    [6] Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

    Heb.8

    [5] Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

    1Pet.2

    [21] For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

    Matt.26

    [38] Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

    [41] Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

    Matt.27

    [36] And sitting down they watched him there;

    [54] Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

    Mark.3

    [2] And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.

    Mark 13

    [37] And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

    John.3

    [2] The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
    Praise and Glory to Lord God Almighty, for His Great Name's Sake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Gillett View Post
    I was talking about water baptism. Which is the subject of the OP.
    No it isn't!

    If we are going to "split hairs" the gift of the Spirit is an "outpouring" or "inpouring" rather than "Baptism", which, as several people have pointed out means "emersion".
    If you want to be "DRENCHED" in something ~ Scripture reveals you should seek being drenched in Christ Jesus' BLOOD.

    Water is temporary. It was temporary for the cleansing of the corrupt earth, and so it was temporary for a mans sinful flesh.

    Show me any Scripture that states specifically that any of the Disciples, or Paul (Silas, Timothy etc, etc, etc) for that matter are "baptised" in water.
    Why? Why don't you get, immature, babe, people are taught simple things to prepare them for more information that as they mature they can comprehend.

    You seem like a man able to eat meat, but insisting you still want strained herbs.
    Praise and Glory to Lord God Almighty, for His Great Name's Sake.

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    Rachael, I am not going to argue with you.

    I can see what you do and how you use Scripture, it appalls me but there is nothing I can say or do to change it.

    I know what is in your heart but, I am sorry, it is not enough to justify how you use Scipture and dictate to people what they must believe and why. Your heart may be in the right place but your methodology does not justify the result. It is wrong but you will never see it. And I cannot reach that part of you.

    You can stop all your judgementalism and accusations about me, they are like the wind, or water off a ducks back. I neither care nor take them to heart.

    This OP is about Baptisms by water, not the Holy spirit and if you actually read it it is undeniable. The Mikvah is cleansing by water.

    Keep your judgementalism in check it does you no credit.

    Everyone does not have to agree with you and you do not have the final word on Scripture.

    To claim Holy spirit guidance as proof is vanity. It may or may not be true but you cannot ever claim superiority or exclusivity. And to claim that I have not access to it is even worse. Keep things in perspective and don't get ahead of yourself or ideas above your station.

    I have no authority over you but take this as a dressing down from a fellow Christian who actually loves you despite your attitude to me.
    Keep it in check.

    Enough said

    Richard GIllett
    I am an unworthy servant. But someone had to stand up and be counted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Gillett View Post
    The Mikvah is cleansing by water.
    So how does that apply to those who did not have Mikvah ?
    May the LORD have mercy upon us all and richly bless us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chap View Post
    So how does that apply to those who did not have Mikvah ?
    Good one!

    Mikvah=among Orthodox Jews, a ritual bath for cleansing or purification, especially before the Sabbath or following menstruation, childbirth, or contact with a corpse

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chap View Post
    So how does that apply to those who did not have Mikvah ?
    Question is meaningless out of the context of the statement made.

    I was just confirming the topic of the OP

    Richard Gillett
    I am an unworthy servant. But someone had to stand up and be counted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Gillett View Post
    Rachael, I am not going to argue with you.
    Okie dokie ~

    I can see what you do and how you use Scripture, it appalls me but there is nothing I can say or do to change it.
    What I do? Disagree with Scripture? Nope.
    Use Scripture to verify what I say? Yep.

    Don't get too disturbed, not everyone is given Understanding.

    I know what is in your heart but, I am sorry, it is not enough to justify how you use Scipture
    Twice now you have made a vague accusation....so it is but worthless.

    and dictate to people what they must believe and why.
    LOL ~ Here you talk as though you are familiar with my posts....yet you somehow have missed the numerous times I speak about CHOOSING (ding, ding, that is not dictating), and speaking about Believing Jesus, yes, because He is the TRUTH. Sad that bugs you. It's called testifying for Jesus. Too bad if you do not like it.

    Your heart may be in the right place but your methodology does not justify the result.
    It is wrong but you will never see it. And I cannot reach that part of you.
    Four times now you speak a VAGUE accusation. I have no need to guess what your grip is. You challenge nothing particular.

    You can stop all your judgementalism and accusations about me,
    I simply noticed you appeared void of comprehending that a man being "filled with the Holy Spirit", IS a man receiving the Holy Spirit in him.

    And? Why do you say you want me to stop? Is that something only you are entitled to do toward me? Why?

    they are like the wind, or water off a ducks back. I neither care nor take them to heart.
    okie dokie

    This OP is about Baptisms by water, not the Holy spirit and if you actually read it it is undeniable. The Mikvah is cleansing by water.
    Some ideas on Baptism <--- OP

    Guess you think YOUR IDEA is exclusive.

    Scripture has a pretty exclusive IDEA. Eph 4 [5] One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

    Scripture is pretty clear. Mark.1 [8]...he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

    But hey if Water is good for you...that's you. I'm enjoying the blessing of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

    Keep your judgementalism in check it does you no credit.
    Just so you understand; several times in this post you have judged and accused me. So how does that work?
    Judgement and accusations are exclusive for you to do?

    Everyone does not have to agree with you and you do not have the final word on Scripture.
    You should pay closer attention. I agree with Christ. I encourage others to agree with Christ. I have NEVER taught anyone should agree with me. I have encouraged others to seek the knowledge in Scripture and seek God Himself for understanding according to Him. If you have a problem with that....too bad for you.

    To claim Holy spirit guidance as proof is vanity.
    LOL that's amusing Richard. VANITY is NOT claiming God provides, His wisdom, guidance, understanding to me. It is testifying He is the source, and He provides for one who seeks.

    And FYI ~ I do not attempt to PROVE anything. It is your choice to trust God and seek Him and receive from Him and enjoy the results....or not.

    It may or may not be true but you cannot ever claim superiority or exclusivity.
    IF and WHEN I ever claim "superiority or exclusivity"....you can then comment to those points. But since I haven't claimed such things, what is your point?

    And to claim that I have not access to it is even worse.
    Richard ~ I said no such thing. Why are you babbling on about things NOT SAID?

    Keep things in perspective and don't get ahead of yourself or ideas above your station.
    The only pertinent perspective is the FACTS. You are going off on a tangent of your imagination.

    I have no authority over you but take this as a dressing down from a fellow Christian who actually loves you despite your attitude to me.
    That is correct. You have no authority over me. How about you review your own post, and insert YOUR NAME where you have accused and judged me.....or QUOTE me saying such nonsense you are griping about.
    Praise and Glory to Lord God Almighty, for His Great Name's Sake.

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    The question has not been answered yet about the Mikvah being the logical predecessor of Baptism and/or the connection between the two. If Baptism is a cleansing from sins, then how is it different than Mikvah? Just remember that both are truly symbolic, it is God who does the actual forgiving not these rituals. There appears no indication of a symbolic dying contained in the Mikvah ritual and there is within the Baptism ritual. But when comparing symbols where does the actually meaning come in?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel View Post
    What I do? Disagree with Scripture?
    no, you impose your views onto it

    Use Scripture to verify what I say? Yep.
    Except that it does not say what you claim it does. You take a single sentance out of context and impose your own values onto it or treat it with no respect to what is around it. ie quoting without context. And you marry proverbial chalk and cheese


    Don't get too disturbed, not everyone is given Understanding.

    That is vanity talk




    Twice now you have made a vague accusation....so it is but worthless.
    only because you fail to ralise what I am reerirring to or see what I claim




    LOL ~ Here you talk as though you are familiar with my posts....yet you somehow have missed the numerous times I speak about CHOOSING (ding, ding, that is not dictating), and speaking about Believing Jesus, yes, because He is the TRUTH. Sad that bugs you. It's called testifying for Jesus. Too bad if you do not like it.
    I know your posts. and yes you do claim the choice, a hobson choice, or the choice of a man with a gun at his head. IOW no choice at all.



    Four times now you speak a VAGUE accusation. I have no need to guess what your grip is. You challenge nothing particular.
    I have in the past.




    I simply noticed you appeared void of comprehending that a man being "filled with the Holy Spirit", IS a man receiving the Holy Spirit in him.

    And? Why do you say you want me to stop? Is that something only you are entitled to do toward me? Why?
    No, I am asking you to stick to the Op and not go off on a tangent. This thread is about water baptism, not the Holy Spirit.


    Some ideas on Baptism <--- OP

    Guess you think YOUR IDEA is exclusive.
    You have not answered my post


    Scripture has a pretty exclusive IDEA. Eph 4 [5] One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    You want an example of bad quoting? you just did it.


    Scripture is pretty clear. Mark.1 [8]...he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
    except that is not the OP


    But hey if Water is good for you...that's you. I'm enjoying the blessing of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
    Woah.

    I am not dismissing the Holy Spirit. it is just not what Celeste was discussing. Read the OP!



    Just so you understand; several times in this post you have judged and accused me. So how does that work?
    Judgement and accusations are exclusive for you to do? [/quote]

    I have made not judgement as such. There is no judicial sentance nor consequence in my words.




    You should pay closer attention. I agree with Christ
    That is a.

    I encourage others to agree with Christ
    That is probably true

    I have NEVER taught anyone should agree with me. I have encouraged others to seek the knowledge in Scripture and seek God Himself for understanding according to Him.
    I am sorry but thatis not the tone of your posting

    LOL that's amusing Richard. VANITY is NOT claiming God provides, His wisdom, guidance, understanding to me. It is testifying He is the source, and He provides for one who seeks.
    The vanity is that you might think you have something I have not


    And FYI ~ I do not attempt to PROVE anything. It is your choice to trust God and seek Him and receive from Him and enjoy the results....or not.
    Again that is not what comes across. Perhaps you should read you own words from the angle of the receiver?




    IF and WHEN I ever claim "superiority or exclusivity"....you can then comment to those points. But since I haven't claimed such things, what is your point?
    The point is the tone of your posting and the assertiveness of it. Even if you claim a choice you make it damn certain which you think someone should chose.




    Richard ~ I said no such thing. Why are you babbling on about things NOT SAID?
    I suggest you read what you said. You claimed that I cannot have the Holy Spirit if I do not concur with you!




    The only pertinent perspective is the FACTS. You are going off on a tangent of your imagination.
    I have changed the thrust, and my only apology is that it is directed, personally at you.


    That is correct. You have no authority over me. How about you review your own post, and insert YOUR NAME where you have accused and judged me.....or QUOTE me saying such nonsense you are griping about.
    Now read again what I said. Read it. Understand it. Reject it if you must, but understand this: I am trying to point out an error in your ways, not condemning you or claiming you not to be a Christian or not to have the Holy Spirit. Just remember that the Holy Spirit does not guide your hand, or ensure that you are understanding fully what He is saying. Ultimately it is Rachael who writes, not the Holy Spirt. And you never know Rachael might occasionally be wrong, or at least be writing her own opinions.

    Blessings and no hard feelings


    Richard
    Last edited by Richard Gillett; 02-16-2017 at 02:23 PM.
    I am an unworthy servant. But someone had to stand up and be counted.

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