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Thread: Evolution: The Grand Deception

  1. #9721
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truly Enlightened View Post
    Somehow I don't think he is really interested in anything we say. He seems only self-absorbed in his power to manipulate others. He pulls the strings and we dance. I just wish he would use that energy to prove his own position. If he can't, why not just admit that it is only a belief? Why is it so frightening to admit this? Everybody has beliefs or faith in something. Without faith there is room for doubt. Does your wife still love you? Faith that she does, or doubt that she does? Don
    Absolutely, he will ask a thousand questions answer none and go down a thousand rabbit trails all while changing the goal posts along the way. And to add to this he engages in all manner of fallacious reasoning while putting on a salesman show of copy and paste cherry picked and mining quotes. And that is just the beginning!
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can also make you commit atrocities

    - Voltaire

  2. #9722
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen T-B View Post
    There's either a free-for-all when it comes to determining what is a fact, or there are rules.

    It is a free-for-all if consensus is the guiding principle.
    A consensus can be wrong - as it was when most people agreed that the Earth is a fixed disc, and that the sun, moon, planets and stars travel across the sky. And it was wrong when most people agreed that deities determined the outcome of battles and that they cause rain and drought and storms and earthquakes and volcanoes, and brought down plagues and pestilence, or - when appeased - put an end to them.

    Relying on common sense doesn't work because what's common sense for one person is plain idiotic to another.

    Relying on the judgement of an elite (secular or religious) doesn't work because elites are fallible.

    Relying on our senses and the perceptions to which they give rise doesn't work because our senses can be mislead and then our perceptions our flawed.

    Relying on personal preference doesn't work because personal prferences vary from person to person.

    Relying on sacred texts doesn't work because there is no way to test their veracity and besides, they contradict one another.

    I believe that mathematics establishes facts; that physics can and that extensive and rigorously-conducted experimentation can, and that deductions resulting from such experimentation which the trained mind accepts as plausible come pretty damn close to it.

    Thus no "fact" can be produced to support the Biblical account of creation, but science comes as close as we are likely to get to establishing tthe "facts" that life has a common ancestor which first appeared some billions of years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelbyGT View Post
    All that build-up just to give your opinion. What a waste of time, I mean what an unscientific post.
    Is that your refutation?
    That it's "unscientific"?

    Since when was it necessary that an argument be scientific?

    Can you do better?

    "There's either a free-for-all when it comes to determining what is a fact, or there are rules." Do you agree, or will you argue that rules are not necessary?
    "True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it."Karl K. Popper

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShelbyGT View Post
    And ignoring the the overwhelming mountain of evidence simply confirms your refusal to accept the truth.
    "Accepting "the truth" is for me a meaningless since "truth" is whatever a person wants it to be.

    And that "mountain of evidence" simply confirms that the authors of the stories in the Bible didn't invent a world in which to stage them but used the one they knew, and incorporated some real people and borrowed some real events and made them fit their narrative.
    "True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it."Karl K. Popper

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen T-B View Post
    Is that your refutation?
    That it's "unscientific"?

    Since when was it necessary that an argument be scientific?

    Can you do better?

    "There's either a free-for-all when it comes to determining what is a fact, or there are rules." Do you agree, or will you argue that rules are not necessary?


    Oh, there are rules. Like you cannot go from atom to Adam without intelligent design. The systems are too specifically complex to be built by random events or mutational mistakes. Of course you can't even have mutations without having life first.

    The "simplest" cell is vastly too complex to have formed from natural processes. If it could we would observe it occurring today. Do we observe this Stephen?

    Isn't that the point? If it all is about natural processes then we would observe atoms, molecules, proteins etc. forming life from non-life. Do we observe that Stephen? No! We do not!

    Those are the rules, Stephen.
    Truth is like a lion, it does not need to be defended, simply let it loose.

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    Another stupid creo undemonstrative claim. Keep at it, rinse and repeat!
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can also make you commit atrocities

    - Voltaire

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Maximus For This Useful Post:

    Stephen T-B (Today)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen T-B View Post
    "Accepting "the truth" is for me a meaningless since "truth" is whatever a person wants it to be.

    And that "mountain of evidence" simply confirms that the authors of the stories in the Bible didn't invent a world in which to stage them but used the one they knew, and incorporated some real people and borrowed some real events and made them fit their narrative.

    No Stephen, an opinion is whatever a person wants it to be. The truth is the truth regardless if it is accepted or acknowledged. This is an extremely important point and one that you should attempt to grasp.

    Thanks for for calling my evidence a "mountain". It was quite impressive if I do say so myself.

    Thanks also for calling it evidence. You do realize the the genealogy was of Noah's grandsons correct? So there is evidence that Noah was a historical figure and that his progeny that survived the Flood can be traced. One could almost say a Flood of evidence!

    So is ignoring evidence in vogue in the evo camp now? Hey, why not, what is truth anyway - am I right!?
    Truth is like a lion, it does not need to be defended, simply let it loose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShelbyGT View Post
    Oh, there are rules. Like you cannot go from atom to Adam without intelligent design. The systems are too specifically complex to be built by random events or mutational mistakes. Of course you can't even have mutations without having life first.

    The "simplest" cell is vastly too complex to have formed from natural processes. If it could we would observe it occurring today. Do we observe this Stephen?

    Isn't that the point? If it all is about natural processes then we would observe atoms, molecules, proteins etc. forming life from non-life. Do we observe that Stephen? No! We do not!

    Those are the rules, Stephen.
    No they aren't.
    All you've done is regurgitate your religious dogma.

    That's not an argument.
    "True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it."Karl K. Popper

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