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Thread: Evolution: The Grand Deception

  1. #7721
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    Quote Originally Posted by Still small View Post
    It has been dated to approximately 75 million years ago, putting it in the Campanian Stage of the Late Cretaceous Period.
    Another multi-million year old fossil to add to the collection... so much for a six-day "poof" just 6,000 years ago.

    Have a good day!
    Never underestimate the power of unreason to overwhelm reason

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truly Enlightened View Post
    Yes, there appears to be some evidence that supports the discovery of fossilized soft tissue. It was thought for over 300 years that soft tissues couldn't last for millions of years. Therefore no one would test for their presence. There are even explanations deposited, including iron binding to proteins and then being fossilized. No matter what the explanation is, it will never include a supernatural explanation. Unless you are trying to make a point, it follows my common sense theory, that NOTHING is perfect and that there will always be exceptions to the rule. But that's just me. What do you think the comparison ratio between soft tissues in fossils, to non-soft tissues in fossils would be? Greater, lesser, or about the same? Don
    I believe the creos think that the existence of "soft tissue" is equivalent, dating wise, to the discovery of a ghost ship with food still hot on the table.

    Tells ya the crew isnt long gone.

    Another little detail is (like the prediction that there would be deep moon dust)
    once a scientist or two has stated a hypothesis, or others have acted on an assumed
    hypothesis, well, it becomes fact. Moon dust WOULD be deep; all "soft tissue"
    WOULD be gone; impossible to be otherwise, given deep time.

    That conversion-to-fact only works with something that appears to support the creo-cult.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Still small View Post
    Another 'soft tissue' find to add to the collection -

    Nearly pristine ankylosaur fossil found in Montana
    May 10, 2017 by Bob Yirka report

    (Phys.org)—A team of researchers with the Royal Ontario Museum and the University of Toronto, both in Canada, has unearthed what is being described as one of the most complete ankylosaur fossilized skeletal remains ever from the Judith River Formation in Montana. In their paper published in the journal Royal Society Open Science, the group describes the find and why they believe study will reveal more about the diversity of the creatures that roamed the Earth not long before the end of the dinosaurs.

    The researchers report that they were actually in the process of digging up another fossil that had been identified when they came across an ankylosaur tail. After excavation, the specimen was found to be approximately 20 feet long, and the team has estimated it would have weighed approximately 5,500 pounds, making it approximately the size of a modern white rhinoceros. It has been dated to approximately 75 million years ago, putting it in the Campanian Stage of the Late Cretaceous Period.
    As with others of its kind, the specimen had a long, spiked tail that was clearly designed for striking enemies, but not prey— ankylosaur was a vegetarian. It also had a spiky head, which looks, depending on your view, either like a dragon or Zuul, the supernatural demigod depicted in the movie Ghostbusters. Because of that, the specimen has been officially named Zuul crurivastator—the second part of its name in rough translation means "destroyer of shins," a nod to its 6.7 foot, 13-vertebra-spiked tail, which also featured a knob or hammer-like end.
    The researchers report that the dinosaur met its fate in a body of water of some sort and was quickly covered in sediment, which acted as a very good preservation material. In addition to bones, the team was also able to make out the remains of soft tissue which, included spike sheaths and scales. The sediment also helped keep the specimen together in its original configuration, offering an unprecedented representation of how the creature looked while still alive. The team also notes that they are hoping that further study of the remains will help fill in gaps in the ankylosaurs record. (Emphasis added)

    Paper

    Also read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-05-pristi...ntana.html#jCp

    Have a good day!
    Still small
    What do you suppose is meant by "remains of soft tissue"?

    Here are some more remains of soft tissue. It is not soft, it would not be edible.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Taikoo View Post
    What do you suppose is meant by "remains of soft tissue"?
    From the paper:

    ROM 75860 also has remarkable integument preservation across the body, including in situ osteoderms, skin impressions and dark films that probably represent preserved keratin.

    From Fig.7:

    Interpretive illustration of the tail of Zuul crurivastator compared with other Mongolian and North American ankylosaurines, in dorsal view, showing differences in the morphology of the caudal osteoderms, and relationships between dermal and epidermal elements: (a) Z. crurivastator, ROM 75860, (b) cf. Pinacosaurus, MPC 100/1305, (c) Dyoplosaurus acutosquameus, ROM 784, (d) Ankylosaurinae indet. from the Nemegt Formation, ZPAL MgD I/113. Vertebrae are indicated in white, zones of ossified tendons are indicated by the lightest grey, osteoderms and ossicles are indicated by a medium grey, and epidermal osteoderm sheaths and scales are indicated by the darkest grey. Abbreviations are as follows: co, caudal osteoderm; co (maj), major osteoderm of the tail club knob; co (min), minor osteoderm of the tail club knob; es, epidermal scale; hcv, handle caudal vertebra; ks, keratinous sheath; ns, neural spine; oss, ossicle; ot, ossified tendons; tp, transverse process. Scale bar, 20 cm.

    And most importantly:

    The specimen preserves numerous features of the integument, including osteoderms (both disarticulated and in situ), millimetre-sized ossicles, and skin impressions. Disarticulated but associated osteoderms are preserved in the block containing the torso, and ossicles are preserved on the ventral surface of the left lower jaw, around the torso, and on the tail. Large triangular osteoderms in the anterior region of the tail are covered in a shiny black material that may represent the original keratinous sheath. Biochemical analyses are required to confirm the presence of keratin and other preserved soft tissues in ROM 75860.

    So it has not been confirmed nor is it as you say fresh or soft. I think soft is what represents the type of original material that they are dealing with not that it is as if the thing died yesterday. Add to that that we are learning about processes that can preserve tissues for a lot longer than previously thought. For further info on this stuff read section 9.1
    Last edited by Maximus; 05-16-2017 at 09:54 AM.
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    Stephen T-B (05-16-2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus View Post
    From the paper:

    ROM 75860 also has remarkable integument preservation across the body, including in situ osteoderms, skin impressions and dark films that probably represent preserved keratin.

    From Fig.7:

    Interpretive illustration of the tail of Zuul crurivastator compared with other Mongolian and North American ankylosaurines, in dorsal view, showing differences in the morphology of the caudal osteoderms, and relationships between dermal and epidermal elements: (a) Z. crurivastator, ROM 75860, (b) cf. Pinacosaurus, MPC 100/1305, (c) Dyoplosaurus acutosquameus, ROM 784, (d) Ankylosaurinae indet. from the Nemegt Formation, ZPAL MgD I/113. Vertebrae are indicated in white, zones of ossified tendons are indicated by the lightest grey, osteoderms and ossicles are indicated by a medium grey, and epidermal osteoderm sheaths and scales are indicated by the darkest grey. Abbreviations are as follows: co, caudal osteoderm; co (maj), major osteoderm of the tail club knob; co (min), minor osteoderm of the tail club knob; es, epidermal scale; hcv, handle caudal vertebra; ks, keratinous sheath; ns, neural spine; oss, ossicle; ot, ossified tendons; tp, transverse process. Scale bar, 20 cm.

    And most importantly:

    The specimen preserves numerous features of the integument, including osteoderms (both disarticulated and in situ), millimetre-sized ossicles, and skin impressions. Disarticulated but associated osteoderms are preserved in the block containing the torso, and ossicles are preserved on the ventral surface of the left lower jaw, around the torso, and on the tail. Large triangular osteoderms in the anterior region of the tail are covered in a shiny black material that may represent the original keratinous sheath. Biochemical analyses are required to confirm the presence of keratin and other preserved soft tissues in ROM 75860.

    So it has not been confirmed nor is it as you say fresh or soft. I think soft is what represents the type of original material that they are dealing with not that it is as if the thing died yesterday. Add to that that we are learning about processes that can preserve tissues for a lot longer than previously thought. For further info on this stuff read section 9.1
    There has been a fair amount of fossil squid or cuttlefish ink recovered, is such condition as to have been reconstituted and used as if it were fresh. Various things have been preserved in remarkable condition, under odd circumstances.

    That "soft tissue" (meaning, one might suppose, not bone or tooth)
    is commonly found in amber is no secret.

    That our creos must so bitterly cling to their contrived notion that
    the existence of "soft tissue" (meaning whatever, one might suppose, they fancy it should mean) is a stake thro' the heart ofevolution shows certain things about them.

    One is they are not into due diligence, rigorous research and evaluation.

    Another is the are so very hard put to find anything to display as
    evidence against evolution that they post the most errant nonsense. An odd thing, that, when one thinks of it.

    They do after all, by their reckoning, have the bible, all of reality,
    and Almighty God himself on their side.
    Last edited by Taikoo; 05-16-2017 at 11:06 AM.

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    So how does soft tissue remain for tens or hundreds of millions of years?
    Truth is like a lion, it does not need to be defended, simply let it loose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShelbyGT View Post
    So how does soft tissue remain for tens or hundreds of millions of years?
    Well, that depends on what you actually mean by 'soft tissue.' The above soft tissue is not actually soft. The correct answer is we don't exactly know all the details for the varying types of tissue and their states. It is being researched. Saying that it is impossible without demonstrating why is not good enough and certainly would not mean a 6-10,000 year old earth.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can also make you commit atrocities

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen T-B View Post
    So you've abandoned the moon dust thing, have you?
    (And now trawling through the creationist web sites for something else...but you won't find anything which hasn't been beaten to death. All that's left are the smears of something disreputable).

    Of course not! But those that have their minds made up, REGARDLESS of evidence, are NOT REDEEMABLE!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShelbyGT View Post
    So how does soft tissue remain for tens or hundreds of millions of years?
    Did you read the post above by Max?

    (And how many times must people go over this?
    A bogus issue is brought up; it is dealt with.
    Then it is brought up again, and it is dealt with...and so it goes on and on and on, as though our YECs think that if they keep on at it long enough we'll hold up our hands and say "Yes yes yes, the whole of science which tells us the universe is many billions of years old is wrong! Everything was made in six days just 6,000 years ago and yes, there really was a serpent which could speak - though no one knows how many legs it had until it got cursed when it stopped having any- and yes, there really was a fruit which could give eternal life to anyone who ate it and yes, just 4,000 years ago there really was a global flood survived by one family on a boat with two - or seven - of every terrestrial creature on earth".

    Is that going to happen?

    No it is not)
    Never underestimate the power of unreason to overwhelm reason

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    Quote Originally Posted by solver View Post
    Of course not! But those that have their minds made up, REGARDLESS of evidence, are NOT REDEEMABLE!
    Dear solver: I've made my mind up because of the evidence.

    You aren't producing evidence - just the smears of things long since swept up and binned.

    And being redeemed is an element of your belief system which is pinned on an immaterial entity the existence of which faith alone sustains.
    Never underestimate the power of unreason to overwhelm reason

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