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Thread: Why the Trinity is a False Doctrine

  1. #2251

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    Quote Originally Posted by james214 View Post
    In other words, Jesus is representing the Father who had come down from heaven by His spirit given without measure to Jesus (John 3:34).
    "For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit." John 3:34

    "i am come down from heaven"


    Jesus is speaking the words of God in a spiritual sense.

    "The words I speak are spirit"

  2. #2252
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    Quote Originally Posted by james214 View Post
    "For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit." John 3:34

    "i am come down from heaven"


    Jesus is speaking the words of God in a spiritual sense.

    "The words I speak are spirit"
    Ding, ding, ding, Christ Jesus IS the FULLNESS of the Spirit of God.

    Gods Spirit IS POWER. All MIGHTY.

    Christ is the POWER of God.

    1 Cor 1 ......[24] ...Christ the power of God,
    Praise and Glory to Lord God Almighty, for His Great Name's Sake.

  3. #2253
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    Default Spiritual Perception is greater than sight and sound.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeboll64
    Those in heaven can show you the literal being of God. They can see the face of God, and the face of his holy servant Jesus who sits at his right hand, and recognize the difference between them. Humans can't see God, but they can see Jesus, because he's NOT God. The closest a human can come to seeing God is seeing some of his glory, like Moses did, and Stephen...
    God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Men see God, in part, with our intellect. The angels see God more perfectly, or as face-to-face, with their intellect.

    Jesus is the only expressed image of God (the one and only), and the one and only exact representation of his being.

    That is the nature of an infinite God. And the Bible tells us so.

    Quote Originally Posted by 'mikebolla64"
    That being said, I'd really appreciate a direct answer to the question I asked you in the quote box above.
    I answered your question originally, and again, above. I am not going to acquiesce to your limited and erroneous language as if it could be applied to an infinite God. Once again, by demonstration on your view of God, your god is not infinite. You can say he is everlasting to everlasting, but along with your above treatise, you can only mean it in a very limited fashion, which is not infinite.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeboll64
    To humans. Not to the spirit creatures who dwell in heaven.
    Created finite beings perceive an infinite God in the same way, spiritually with the intellect. Humans, in part, due to our physical constitution. Angels, as face to face, because they too are spirit.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeboll64
    Exactly! Not God himself, but a perfect representative that God sent down from heaven.
    In that the Father is called God, and the Son is called God, as well. We need to rephrase your reply to be more succinct. <'Exactly! Not the Father himself, but a perfect representative that the Father sent down from heaven.'> This rephrase is perfectly consistent with the Son coming forth from out of infinitude, where the Father resides wholly invisible and unknowable. Unperceivable in his infinitude, with any sort of fleshly finite senses, as logic would dictate. The Son makes the Father known by his very image and his very person. The Son who is in the bosom of the Father, only he reveals the Father. The Father is spirit, and of utter logical necessity, those who worship him directly, must worship him in spirit with the intellect--not through the five senses of the flesh. The Father is perceived, even now as you ponder him Mike, with the intellect.

    If you can get the notion of a finite god out of your mind, it is not that difficult to understand what I am telling you.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeboll64
    Do you agree that spirit beings in heaven CAN see the Father, Gideon?
    Not in the fashion that you are portraying, as if he were a finite being that could be gazed upon. See my above comments on spirit and intellect.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeboll64
    Do you agree that they can tell the difference between God and his holy servant Jesus Christ?
    Again, both the Father and the Son (God with us), are called God. I, with the limited capacity put upon me by my flesh, can perceive the difference between the Father and Son. I can also perceive the meaning of the words...the Word was with God, and was God...and find logic in them. Simply by accepting that God is infinite.

    Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

    Spiritual perception is greater than what we can see, hear, and perceive, with our human faculties.
    And the Lord said unto Gideon, By the three hundred men that lapped will I save you.

  4. #2254

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel View Post
    Ding, ding, ding, Christ Jesus IS the FULLNESS of the Spirit of God.
    Actually, the Scripture says "in him all the fullness of deity dwells bodily,"

    Which is consistent with John 3:34 :

    "For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit."

    In other words, the man Jesus Christ did not preexist his being born.

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    Quote Originally Posted by james214 View Post
    Actually, the Scripture says "in him all the fullness of deity dwells bodily,"

    Which is consistent with John 3:34 :

    "For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit."

    In other words, the man Jesus Christ did not preexist his being born.
    No.

    John 3:34

    [31] He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

    In other words ~

    John.3

    [13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    Have you not figured out; the Son of man, is the Son of God, is Christ, is Jesus, is God in the flesh, is God who is before all things, above all, and by him all things consist, exist, are made and created?

    Col.1

    [17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
    Praise and Glory to Lord God Almighty, for His Great Name's Sake.

  6. #2256

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel View Post
    No.

    John 3:34

    [31] He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

    In other words ~

    John.3

    [13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    Have you not figured out; the Son of man, is the Son of God, is Christ, is Jesus, is God in the flesh, is God who is before all things, above all, and by him all things consist, exist, are made and created?

    Col.1

    [17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
    There is NOTHING attributed to Christ which does not come from the Father.

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    Quote Originally Posted by james214 View Post
    There is NOTHING attributed to Christ which does not come from the Father.
    And?

    if God Jesus is actually God does that not also apply, even more so?

    It is all a matter of perspective. In fact this whole argument is all a matter of perspective, plus the way that you or I read or accept Scripture.

    And it will go on until Christ returns and confirms or denies it.

    If you really think you can "win" you are delusional. And if you think that you can quote any Scripture that has not been thought of or included then you are vane. (Especially if it is from the new Testament.)

    Go on, be my guest. I have "heard" it all before.

    Vanity, vanity, all is vanity. (Ecclesisates, several times)

    Richard Gillett
    I am an unworthy servant. But someone had to stand up and be counted.

  8. #2258
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    Quote Originally Posted by james214 View Post
    There is NOTHING attributed to Christ which does not come from the Father.
    ALL things are "OF" God.....

    the Father is "OF" God,
    the Son is "OF" God,
    the Word is "OF" God,
    the Knowledge is "OF" God,
    the Wisdom is "OF" God,
    the Understanding is "OF" God,
    the Pure True Light is "OF" God,
    the Holy Spirit IS "OF" God,
    the MIGHTY POWER is "OF" God,
    the SEED is "OF" God....

    You have not yet come to the UNDERSTANDING that ALL things "OF" God ~ "IS" God.

    You have not yet come to the UNDERSTANDING that ALL things "OF" God ~ COME FORTH OUT FROM GOD ~
    and IS precisely HOW ALL things are MADE and CREATED.

    You have not yet come to the UNDERSTANDING that ALL things "OF" God ~ COME FORTH OUT FROM GOD !
    and IS precisely HOW ALL things created and made RECEIVE "things / blessings / gifts ~ FROM GOD.

    You have not yet come to the UNDERSTANDING ALL things "OF" God Have Been identified and CALLED by NAMES and TITLES.

    the Father is "OF" God,
    ...called Father, God, Almighty, Jehovah, Yahweh, YHWH, JESUS, Son of God, Messiah, Angel of the Lord, Lord, CHRIST, Savior, Redeemer, Spirit, Holy, LORD, Rock, King, Everlasting, Forgiver of Sin, All knowing, etc.

    the Son is "OF" God,
    ...called Son of God, Son of man, JESUS, God with us, Lord, King, Word, Messiah, Teacher, CHIRST, Rock,Savior, Redeemer, Spirit, Holy, Everlasting, Mighty God, All Knowing, Forgiver of SIN, etc.

    the Word is "OF" God,
    ...is called JESUS, TRUTH, WAY, LIFE, everlasting, etc.

    the Knowledge is "OF" God,
    ...is called Revelation, Spoken, Envisioned, Written, Repeated, Kept, Sacred, Holy, Everlasting, etc.

    the Wisdom is "OF" God,
    ...is called knowledge, understanding, retaining, kept, everlasting.

    the Understanding is "OF" God,
    ...is called comprehending the Wholeness of God, Supreme above all things, OF, BY and FOR thee Lord God Almighty.

    the Pure True Light is "OF" God,
    ...Consuming fire, unquenchable, bright, unapproachable, Glory, everlasting, JESUS, etc.

    the Holy Spirit IS "OF" God,
    ...Holy, Invisible, Supreme, Power, Authority, Everlasting, CHRIST, etc.

    the MIGHTY POWER is "OF" God,
    ...Holy, Invisible, Supreme, Authority, Everlasting, CHRIST, etc.

    the SEED is "OF" God...
    ...is called CHRIST.

    You can understand in your carnal mind, carnal things.
    You attempt to understand in your carnal mind, spiritual things. <--- which is a fail.

    Rom.8

    [6] For to be carnally minded is death;
    [7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:

    1Cor.3

    [19] For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.


    And for your carnal mind ~ you should at least know ~ even you were a "son" long before it is revealed you are a "father".

    It matters NOT WHEN or in WHAT MANNER it pleases God to reveal Himself to us. The TRUTH in written Scripture, reveals the KNOWLEDGE; And Scripture itself teaches to TRUST what is revealed, regardles it you yet understand it.

    All things are "OF" God.
    What is "OF" God "IS" God.
    And What "comes forth out from God", is precisely HOW God EFFECTS "HIS PLEASURE AND WILL is executed / done /accomplished!

    "BY" Gods Word coming forth out from God IS precisely HOW Gods WILL is accomplished.
    and
    "BY" Gods Power coming forth out from God IS precisely HOW Gods WILL is accomplished.

    CHRIST IS the NAME of Gods POWER, WISDOM, SEED,

    JESUS IS the NAME of Gods CHRIST.

    JESUS said to SEE Him, is to SEE the Father.

    If you are still without UNDERSTANDING, that the Son, Father & Holy Spirit is thee Lord God Almighty ~
    I guess you haven't gotten around to asking God Himself to give you the understanding ~

    1Chr.22

    [12] Only the LORD give thee wisdom and understanding ~

    Luke.24

    [45] Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

    Matt; 7

    [8] For every one that asketh receiveth;


    It doesn't matter, Ask God, the Father, Jesus Christ ~ all One in the Same who can give you UNDERSTANDING.

    God doesn't reply to text. You will have to knock at the door. And IFY Jesus IS the door.
    Praise and Glory to Lord God Almighty, for His Great Name's Sake.

  9. #2259
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    No response..

    Quote Originally Posted by 1stjohn
    Ruach can be both feminine and masculine. I have a verse in my notes that might just be interesting to you.

    Isaiah 57:16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth; for the spirit that enwrappeth itself is from Me, and the souls which I have made.
    "Spirit" here is masculine, feel free to fact check me.

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    Originally posted by mikeboll64
    About those gods, Jehovah himself said...

    Exodus 12:12
    On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals,*and I will bring judgment on allthe gods*of Egypt. I am the LORD.*

    Later, Jehovah says...

    Jeremiah 46:25
    The LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: "I am about to bring punishment on Amon*god of Thebes, on Pharaoh,*on Egypt and*her gods*and her kings, and on those who rely on Pharaoh.

    How does Jehovah "punish" what you think are just man-made idols? I know you don't grasp it yet, but the gods mentioned in this post are some of the gods Jehovah passed judgement against in Psalm 82, telling them that although they are gods, they will die like mere mortals.

    I'll leave you with this one...

    2 Kings 3:27
    So [the King of Moab] took his firstborn son, who was to become king in his place, and offered him as a burnt offering on the city wall. Great wrath was on the Israelites, and they withdrew from him and returned to their land.*

    Who brought a great wrath upon the Israelites, forcing them to withdraw and head home? Well, who would the King of Moab have sacrificed his son to? The Moabite god Chemosh, right? Surely it wasn't Jehovah who brought wrath on his own people because the king sacrificed his son to Chemosh, right?

    These kinds of teachings are all throughout the scriptures, jig. You only have to read them to know that there are, like Paul clearly said, many gods and many lords, both in heaven and on earth. More importantly, you need to realize that for*US, there is but one God, the Father, who is the Most High God*of*all those other gods. Think about it... what does*"Most High God"*even mean if Jehovah is literally the*only*god? What does*"God*of*gods"*mean if Jehovah is literally the*only*god?
    It means God is the only true God there is, but whatever or whoever people worship is a god to them. You're forcing false beliefs into scripture because scripture does call Jesus God.

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