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Thread: I do not believe in the trinity and am still Christian. Here is why

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    You do not understand what a cult is, which, as I said, is likely true of those in a cult Not every group is a cult. A cult has particular characteristics and JWs fit it perfectly. But as I said, those in the cult, do not know they are in a cult and as we see in you, do not even know what a cult is.
    I know exactly what a cult is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    No, you do not understand at all.
    Of course I do. I know what a cult is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    OH yes you do. "The Word was with God and the Word was a god." That is JW doctrine. Maybe you don't understand the teachings of the JWs as good as you think. And yes, they think Jesus was an angel.
    Ever see me quote the NWT? If not, then how, other that in your cult mentality, can you say what I believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    That too. One does not negate the other. But let me ask you, was he ONLY a man?????
    Sure was, Dottie. Scriptures don't lie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    No, he was God with us, that is God incarnate.
    Yet, you can never seem to post the scripture that says just that. Ever wonder why?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Jesus said he was going back to God where he came from.
    From "whom" he came. i.e., the one who sent him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    He called himself the son of God, not a god (which no Jew would say.)
    Remember these famous lines?

    33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
    34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?
    35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken—
    36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

    Being called "a god" by the Jews did not automatically elevate one to Almighty God status, now did it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    "Before Abraham was, I am" Jesus.
    Of course he was. Nobody here denies his pre-existence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Hummmmmmm So do you see Jesus as only a man, just a man, nothing more than a man?
    I have enough faith in Jesus to take him at his words and not try to make him more than he claimed himself to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Was he only a mere man to you?
    Bible says he was a man, Dottie. Why believe otherwise? My faith is strong enough to accept even a cockroach as my savior if that is what God wills. So, when the Bible, Jesus and the apostles call Jesus "a man", I accept it. On faith.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    No Virgin birth.
    Of what consequence is the manner of conception? Was Adam, then, more Almighty God then Jesus, since he also lacked a mother and Eve was created by means of him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    No "with God and was God'"
    That's where you start losing it. Remove the capital from the second "god" and you have it correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    No "before Abraham was, I am?"
    As I said, the pre-existence of Jesus is a given. Just not his consubstantial, co-eternal co-equality with Almighty God, which Jesus clearly denied many times, and is not stated anywhere in the scriptures.

    I find it interesting that trinitarians always ignore the words of John the Baptist.

    30 This is he of whom I said, ‘After me comes a man who ranks before me, because he was before me.’

    And JTB should know. He was infused with the Holy Spirit even before he was born, as someone reminded me.

    31 If I alone bear witness about myself, my testimony is not true.
    32 There is another who bears witness about me, and I know that the testimony that he bears about me is true.
    33 You sent to John, and he has borne witness to the truth.

    And, what did John testify to?

    30 This is he of whom I said, ‘After me comes a man who ranks before me, because he was before me.’
    "You [the Father], the Only True God" -- Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by An Onymous Brother View Post
    I know exactly what a cult is.
    If you think I am in one, you do not.
    Ever see me quote the NWT? If not, then how, other that in your cult mentality, can you say what I believe?
    Deny what I quote out of the NWT. All JWs believe these things.
    Sure was, Dottie. Scriptures don't lie.
    Those who love truth do not edit out that Jesus was the Son of God and was God. Do you believe that? Scriptures don't lie remember?
    Yet, you can never seem to post the scripture that says just that. Ever wonder why?
    His name shall be Emanuel, God with us. You embarassed?
    From "whom" he came. i.e., the one who sent him.
    No, that is not what he said. He said that he, himself, is returning to where he was with the Father. Not that he was sent. He did not need to tell God that he was sent.
    Remember these famous lines?

    33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
    34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?
    35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken—
    36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

    Being called "a god" by the Jews did not automatically elevate one to Almighty God status, now did it?
    Being called the Son of God did. Being with God and being God did. Where in those verses is Jesus called "a god?" I see it no where. It is no there in the text. No where does anyone say to him nor does he say of himself "I am a god" nor "you are a god." Sorry but that is not there.
    Of course he was. Nobody here denies his pre-existence.
    No man preexisted.
    I have enough faith in Jesus to take him at his words and not try to make him more than he claimed himself to be.
    You do not have the faith to take ALL that he claimed himself to be. You edit out the GB denied truth.
    Bible says he was a man, Dottie. Why believe otherwise? My faith is strong enough to accept even a cockroach as my savior if that is what God wills. So, when the Bible, Jesus and the apostles call Jesus "a man", I accept it. On faith.
    HE was God, the great I am, the beginning and the end. No man is those things. No
    Of what consequence is the manner of conception?
    Ah, you deny the virgin conception of Christ I take it. Must have been important to God to put it in his Word. But I know the JWs edit out all the bits besides Jesus was just a man.
    Was Adam, then, more Almighty God then Jesus, since he also lacked a mother and Eve was created by means of him?
    No where is Adam called Almighty God at all. Adam was not conceived by the Holy SPirit.
    That's where you start losing it. Remove the capital from the second "god" and you have it correct.
    I know there is one True God, not many gods. But I know that is what the JWs believe, many gods....polytheism.
    As I said, the pre-existence of Jesus is a given. Just not his consubstantial, co-eternal co-equality with Almighty God, which Jesus clearly denied many times, and is not stated anywhere in the scriptures.
    How come you never show any scriptures that show there Jesus clearly denied being with God and being "I am?" The jews said he made himself out to be God and he refused to deny it because he could not. He was.
    I find it interesting that trinitarians always ignore the words of John the Baptist
    No we don't. But I find it sad that JWs ignore the words of Jesus who was with God and was God..
    30 This is he of whom I said, ‘After me comes a man who ranks before me, because he was before me.’
    What? Why do you think we deny this? I already said Jesus was there before Abraham. This includes before John the B.
    And JTB should know. He was infused with the Holy Spirit even before he was born, as someone reminded me.
    He did know that Jesus was not merely a man.

    30 This is he of whom I said, ‘After me comes a man who ranks before me, because he was before me.’
    Again, why in the world do you tihnk we deny this????? We say before Abraham was, Jesus was. That is before JTB too. Why do you think Jesus being a man instead of woman or a giraffe means he was merely a man? I know, because JWs edit out bits and change the bits that are there.
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

  3. #33
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    its sad to me and upsetting to see some say they believe in jesus Christ from the different named groups as they belong to but their jesus Christ is only a Mormon or Jehovah witness deity, and their blind to it because their leadership is also blinded to it.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    If you think I am in one, you do not.
    Yes I do. That's why I can tell. Your trinitarian cult is the largest cult known to man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Deny what I quote out of the NWT. All JWs believe these things.
    That's the problem with ignorance when left untreated. It gets worse.

    The NWT says what the NWT says. "god" does not denote anything more than what the Hebrews understood it to be, while "God" denotes the One Almighty God. So, why add your Greek Mythology to it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Those who love truth do not edit out that Jesus was the Son of God and was God. Do you believe that? Scriptures don't lie remember?
    Those that love the Father love the Son. Why do you create another Almighty God when Jesus told you the Father is the Only True God? Sounds more like an application of Mat 7:21.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    His name shall be Emanuel, God with us. You embarassed?
    No, Dottie. Only justified in my beliefs you are in a cult.

    You should be embarassed. As a scientist, you know using circular logic to prove your point just proves you have no evidence. Yet, you ignore this: Sign of a cult.

    What was JESUS's name again? By order of whom? Was it "Emanuel" or "JESUS".

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    No, that is not what he said. He said that he, himself, is returning to where he was with the Father. Not that he was sent. He did not need to tell God that he was sent.
    Mark 9:37 “Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me, and whoever receives me, receives not me but him who sent me.”
    Matthew 10:40 “Whoever receives you receives me, and whoever receives me receives him who sent me.
    Luke 4:18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed,
    John 7:28 So Jesus proclaimed, as he taught in the temple, “You know me, and you know where I come from. But I have not come of my own accord. He who sent me is true, and him you do not know.

    John 7:33 Jesus then said, “I will be with you a little longer, and then I am going to him who sent me.


    Shall I go on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Being called the Son of God did.
    Genesis 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.
    That's quite the Pantheon you have created, Dottie. Quite industrious.

    We even have another Godman:

    Luke 3:38 the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Being with God
    Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them

    Guess we need to go and add more gods to your Pantheon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    and being God did.
    Another circular reference, Dottie? Culty, culty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Where in those verses is Jesus called "a god?" I see it no where. It is no there in the text. No where does anyone say to him nor does he say of himself "I am a god" nor "you are a god." Sorry but that is not there.
    And you won't. Jesus isn't a Greek god or the Hebrew God. He is a Jewish man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    No man preexisted.
    As a MAN, no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    You do not have the faith to take ALL that he claimed himself to be.
    What did Jesus claim to be?

    Mat 16:
    13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?”
    14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
    15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
    16 Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
    17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
    18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
    19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
    20 Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.

    Would you say Peter got it wrong?

    John 10:36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

    Did Jesus lie?

    Luke 4:41 And demons also came out of many, crying, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew that he was the Christ.

    We even have testimony from demons, and they know and believe that God is One.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    You edit out the GB denied truth.
    First prove your heresy of the trinity true. Then anyone's actions regarding it can be judged. So far, you have failed, even resorting to circular arguments to support your heresy. And why can you not keep JW/GB/WT out of it? Is that how you can justify your heresy? You have not seen me use or reference or quote any JW material, have you? If your arguments cannot stand on their own merits, why the red herrings? Just leave your cult and admit the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    HE was God,
    Statement of facts not in evidence. Argumentum ad infinitum is just a fallacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    the great I am,
    Statement of facts not in evidence. Argumentum ad infinitum is just a fallacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    the beginning and the end.
    Of what?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    No man is those things. No
    A COCKROACH is those things and more if GOD WILLS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Ah, you deny the virgin conception of Christ I take it.
    Already have told you otherwise, I can post the link if you have forgotten. Or are you just trying another red herring?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Must have been important to God to put it in his Word.
    Just as it was for Jesus to say "you [the Father] the Only True God," yet you want to ignore that. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    But I know the JWs edit out all the bits besides Jesus was just a man.
    So far you have proven clueless as to what JWS do, so just compounding ignorance does your cause no good. Keep out the ad-hominems and red herrings and stick to the scriptures--which is difficult, I know, because they do not declare the trinity, or God the Son, or the other nonsense trinitarians spout.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    No where is Adam called Almighty God at all.
    According to you, he is:
    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Being called the Son of God did.
    Luke 3:38 the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Adam was not conceived by the Holy SPirit.
    According to trinitarians, yes he was, since they're all the same, equally God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    I know there is one True God, not many gods.
    Then you teach different than Paul.
    1 Cor 8
    5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”—
    6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

    Notice how he left Jesus out of the "One God" equation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    But I know that is what the JWs believe, many gods....polytheism.
    We believe as Jesus, and his people, the Jews, believed, and as Paul reinforced just above. You teach a different Gospel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    How come you never show any scriptures that show there Jesus clearly denied being with God and being "I am?"
    Which part of "you, the Only True God" escapes you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    The jews said he made himself out to be God and he refused to deny it because he could not.
    The Jews did not say Jesus made himself to be God, Dottie. That's your cult speaking. What EXACTLY did the Jews say, again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    He was.
    Not according to the scriptures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    No we don't.
    Then why deny that Jesus was a man? That is what JTB said. Not that Jesus was God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    But I find it sad that JWs ignore the words of Jesus
    We don't: "you [the Father] the Only True God" John 17:3

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    who was with God
    We know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    and was God.
    Statement of facts not in evidence. Argumentum ad infinitum is just a fallacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    What? Why do you think we deny this? I already said Jesus was there before Abraham. This includes before John the B.
    He did know that Jesus was not merely a man.
    Really? Show where JTB called Jesus God, please. Why would he not proclaim that Almighty God was finally among men?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Again, why in the world do you tihnk we deny this????? We say before Abraham was, Jesus was. That is before JTB too. Why do you think Jesus being a man instead of woman or a giraffe means he was merely a man? I know, because JWs edit out bits and change the bits that are there.
    More red herrings. Must be embarassing to constantly find non-trinitarians sinking your pantheon.

    Why do you think Jesus saying he was the son of man, that JTB, the apostles all say he was a man, that Jesus saying he has a God, that Jesus says his God is the Only True God

    means Jesus is God?
    "You [the Father], the Only True God" -- Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by doubleuseebee View Post
    its sad to me and upsetting to see some say they believe in jesus Christ from the different named groups as they belong to but their jesus Christ is only a Mormon or Jehovah witness deity, and their blind to it because their leadership is also blinded to it.
    JWs don't say Jesus is a "deity" at all. That would make him a false God per John 17:3.

    Jesus had a beginning.

    God does not.
    "You [the Father], the Only True God" -- Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by An Onymous Brother View Post
    JWs don't say Jesus is a "deity" at all. That would make him a false God per John 17:3.

    Jesus had a beginning.

    God does not.
    Not according to Jesus. "Before Abraham was, I am" says he did not have a beginning. But I know the JW blindness so this is useless.
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

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