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Thread: Imitation OF Christ

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    You're not glorifying God by ignoring His Word.
    Which words am I ignoring?
    Matt 5:48?
    "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

    John 5:14?
    "Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."

    John 8:11?
    "She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."

    "Go and sin no more."
    "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." (Ja 5:20)

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    You misquoted the scripture. "Fall short" should be "fallen short". It is a past tense phrase.
    I'm surprised you didn't catch that from the word "have".
    Hopefully it was just a mistake and not on purpose.
    Tell it to Biblegateway from where I cut-and-pasted it.

    Here. Let me post a few more, just to be fair and hold your beliefs to the light:

    KJ21 for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God,
    ASV for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;
    AMP since all have sinned and continually fall short of the glory of God,
    AMPC Since all have sinned and are falling short of the honor and glory which God bestows and receives.
    BRG For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    CSB For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
    CEB All have sinned and fall short of Godís glory,
    CJB since all have sinned and come short of earning Godís praise.

    CEV All of us have sinned and fallen short of Godís glory.

    DARBY for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    DLNT for all sinned and are coming-short-of the glory of God,
    DRA For all have sinned, and do need the glory of God.
    ERV All have sinned and are not good enough to share Godís divine greatness.
    ESV for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
    ESVUK for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

    EXB Everyone has sinned and ∑fallen short [or is not worthy] of Godís ∑glorious standard [or glorious presence; L glory]

    GNV For there is no difference: for all have sinned, and are deprived of the glory of God,

    GW Because all people have sinned, they have fallen short of Godís glory.


    GNT everyone has sinned and is far away from God's saving presence.
    HCSB For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
    ICB All people have sinned and are not good enough for Godís glory.
    ISV since all have sinned and continue to fall short of Godís glory.
    JUB for all have sinned and are made destitute of the glory of God,
    KJV For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    AKJV for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    LEB for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
    TLB Yes, all have sinned; all fall short of Godís glorious ideal;

    VOICE You see, all have sinned, and all their futile attempts to reach God in His glory fail.
    Now, THAT one is quite strong.

    I could go on and post another 20 versions, but, at this point I would venture to say that your view is incorrect.

    hustereů: to come late, be behind, come short
    Original Word: ὑστερέω
    Part of Speech: Verb
    Transliteration: hustereů
    Phonetic Spelling: (hoos-ter-eh'-o)
    Short Definition: I am lacking, fall short, suffer need
    Definition: I fall behind, am lacking, fall short, suffer need, am inferior to.

    Nothing "past" about "fall short" except to those who might want to deny:

    8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    Nope. No mistake at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    Paul writes..."
    Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Corinthians 15:34)
    Do you think he forgot what he wrote to the Romans? Or is stupidly exhorting the converted to walk in two directions?
    Please pick "neither".
    Not at all. Telling someone not to sin does not mean they won't stumble. That is why Paul also tells them they are to forgive sinners amongst them. Or do you think Paul forgot about 1 Cor when he wrote 2 Cor?

    5 Now if anyone has caused pain, he has caused it not to me, but in some measureónot to put it too severelyóto all of you.
    6 For such a one, this punishment by the majority is enough,
    7 so you should rather turn to forgive and comfort him, or he may be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow.
    8 So I beg you to reaffirm your love for him.
    9 For this is why I wrote, that I might test you and know whether you are obedient in everything.
    10 Anyone whom you forgive, I also forgive. Indeed, what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for your sake in the presence of Christ,
    11 so that we would not be outwitted by Satan; for we are not ignorant of his designs.

    Pay attention to that last line.

    8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    "You [the Father], the Only True God" -- Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by An Onymous Brother View Post
    Tell it to Biblegateway from where I cut-and-pasted it.
    Here. Let me post a few more, just to be fair and hold your beliefs to the light:
    KJ21 for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God,
    ASV for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;
    AMP since all have sinned and continually fall short of the glory of God,
    AMPC Since all have sinned and are falling short of the honor and glory which God bestows and receives.
    BRG For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    CSB For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
    CEB All have sinned and fall short of God’s glory,
    CJB since all have sinned and come short of earning God’s praise.
    CEV All of us have sinned and fallen short of God’s glory.
    DARBY for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    DLNT for all sinned and are coming-short-of the glory of God,
    DRA For all have sinned, and do need the glory of God.
    ERV All have sinned and are not good enough to share God’s divine greatness.
    ESV for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
    ESVUK for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
    EXB Everyone has sinned and ∑fallen short [or is not worthy] of God’s ∑glorious standard [or glorious presence; L glory]
    GNV For there is no difference: for all have sinned, and are deprived of the glory of God,
    GW Because all people have sinned, they have fallen short of God’s glory.

    GNT everyone has sinned and is far away from God's saving presence.
    HCSB For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
    ICB All people have sinned and are not good enough for God’s glory.
    ISV since all have sinned and continue to fall short of God’s glory.
    JUB for all have sinned and are made destitute of the glory of God,
    KJV For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    AKJV for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    LEB for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
    TLB Yes, all have sinned; all fall short of God’s glorious ideal;
    VOICE You see, all have sinned, and all their futile attempts to reach God in His glory fail.
    Now, THAT one is quite strong.
    I could go on and post another 20 versions, but, at this point I would venture to say that your view is incorrect.
    hustereů: to come late, be behind, come short
    Original Word: ὑστερέω
    Part of Speech: Verb
    Transliteration: hustereů
    Phonetic Spelling: (hoos-ter-eh'-o)
    Short Definition: I am lacking, fall short, suffer need
    Definition: I fall behind, am lacking, fall short, suffer need, am inferior to.
    Nothing "past" about "fall short" except to those who might want to deny:
    Not one of those versions made "sinned" out to be present tense or ongoing.
    Too bad your defense of sin has left you out of the normal ways of reading.

    8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    Addressed to those who continue to commit sin.

    It is written..."And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
    Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him." (1 John 3:5-6)

    You apparently do not "abide in Him".

    God is holding the door open for you to come to repentance, but He won't wait forever.
    "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." (Ja 5:20)

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    Not one of those versions made "sinned" out to be present tense or ongoing.
    Why would they? The point being is that we continually keep falling short of the Glory of God.

    If anyone were truly "sinless" they would not. They would be truly Holy, as Jesus is Holy, and who is the Glory of God.

    How can you not be Holy if you do not sin?

    That is impossible. If you are Holy, you do not sin. But, scriptures tell us ALL fall SHORT of that goal.

    Therefore 1 John 1:

    8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us
    10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

    James 3:

    2 For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    Too bad your defense of sin has left you out of the normal ways of reading.
    More lies (at this point, since I have explained many times my views, I believe the line has been crossed from mere ignorance, to simple self-deception and into outright lying to promote self justification) from the sinless man, proving 1 John and James true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    Addressed to those who continue to commit sin.
    Really!?!?!?

    Why did he include himself, do you think? Lying?

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    It is written..."And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
    Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him." (1 John 3:5-6)
    It is written:

    8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

    2 For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    You apparently do not "abide in Him".
    More lying from the sinless man?

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    God is holding the door open for you to come to repentance, but He won't wait forever.
    You're looking from the wrong side. I'm already inside.

    8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us
    Last edited by An Onymous Brother; 04-25-2017 at 10:32 PM.
    "You [the Father], the Only True God" -- Jesus Christ (1st Century CE)

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    Which words am I ignoring?
    You mean, which words are you adding?

    These:

    Matt 5:48?
    "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect and then gloat about it."

    John 5:14?
    "Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more and tell everyone how you have made yourself pure, lest a worse thing come unto thee."

    John 8:11?
    "She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. Make sure to boast about your sinlessness and exalt yourself above all others. You are your own judge."

    "Go and sin no more. Tell everyone how you are pure and how you have saved yourself. You are the judge of your salvation."

    That is the part of your message which we reject. We believe in being sinless and, by God's grace, we seek to attain that blessed state. But we do not judge ourselves. We obey God and leave the judgement of our soul to Christ:

    1 Corinthians 4:2 Now it is of course required of stewards that they be found trustworthy. 3 It does not concern me in the least that I be judged by you or any human tribunal; I do not even pass judgment on myself; 4 I am not conscious of anything against me, but I do not thereby stand acquitted; the one who judges me is the Lord.
    Last edited by De Maria; Yesterday at 04:43 AM.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    Not one of those versions made "sinned" out to be present tense or ongoing.....
    Which one of those verses say that Christians will never stumble? Here are more Bible verses that you reject or ignore:

    1 Corinthians 10:11 These things happened to them as an example, and they have been written down as a warning to us, upon whom the end of the ages has come. 12 Therefore, whoever thinks he is standing secure should take care not to fall.

    Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
    13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    Proverbs 24:16 Though the just fall seven times, they rise again,
    but the wicked stumble from only one mishap.
    17 Do not rejoice when your enemies fall,
    and when they stumble, do not let your heart exult,
    18 Lest the Lord see it, be displeased with you,
    and withdraw his wrath from your enemies.

    Luke 18:The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector. 9 He then addressed this parable to those who were convinced of their own righteousness and despised everyone else. 10 “Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, ‘O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity—greedy, dishonest, adulterous—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.’ 13 But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, ‘O God, be merciful to me a sinner.’ 14 I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    You mean, which words are you adding?
    If you had ever been cleaned by God you too would talk about it.
    You see it as gloating, because righteousness is a foreign concept to the wicked-church people.

    Which do you worship? God or an organization?
    Last edited by Philip2; Yesterday at 12:17 PM.
    "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." (Ja 5:20)

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    Quote Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    Which one of those verses say that Christians will never stumble?
    "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, (verses 3-8), ye shall never fall:" (2 Peter 1:10)

    And..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
    In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:" (1 John 3:9-10)

    From here on out, you must realize that you are lauding disobedience.
    "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." (Ja 5:20)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip2 View Post
    "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, (verses 3-8), ye shall never fall:" (2 Peter 1:10)

    And..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
    In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:" (1 John 3:9-10)

    From here on out, you must realize that you are lauding disobedience.
    You never answered the question. Which verse says that Christians will never stumble.

    2nd Peter warns us to be careful not to stumble by doing certain things. But that does not say that Christians don't stumble.

    And 1 John needs to be read in context. Let's compare.

    1 John 1:

    8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us
    10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

    and...

    Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
    In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:" (1 John 3:9-10)

    I believe both. I don't claim to be without sin in accordance with 1 John 1:8-10. And I strive to live without sin in accordance with 1 John 3:9-10.

    But you utterly disregard 1 John 1:8-10 and yet claim to live in accordance with 1 John 3:9-10.

    From here on out, you must realize that you are twisting the Word of God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    You never answered the question. Which verse says that Christians will never stumble.
    2nd Peter warns us to be careful not to stumble by doing certain things. But that does not say that Christians don't stumble.
    Peter also wrote this..."Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
    And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
    But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;" (1 Peter 2:7-9)
    It is the disobedient that "stumble"
    It is those who have NOT left the darkness that "stumble".

    And 1 John needs to be read in context. Let's compare.
    1 John 1:
    8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us
    10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
    and...
    Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
    In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:" (1 John 3:9-10)
    I believe both. I don't claim to be without sin in accordance with 1 John 1:8-10. And I strive to live without sin in accordance with 1 John 3:9-10.
    But you utterly disregard 1 John 1:8-10 and yet claim to live in accordance with 1 John 3:9-10.
    From here on out, you must realize that you are twisting the Word of God.
    Your sensing of a conflict between 1John 1:8, 10 and 1 John 3:9 is because your interpretation is marred.

    John is writing to a church, about two kinds of men.
    Those who walk in the light, and those who walk in the darkness.
    Those who walk in the light have had ALL their sins cleansed by the blood of Christ. They CAN say they have no sin.
    Those who walk in darkness cannot say they have no sin, because they do continue to commit sin.
    John uses an A-B, A-B, A-B style of writing. (Also used by Paul in Romans 8...Spirit-flesh, Spirit-flesh, Spirit-flesh.)
    A applies to those who walk in the light and B applies to those who walk in the darkness.
    Verses 5, 7, and 9 refer to those who walk in the light.
    Verses 6, 8, and 10 refer to those who walk in the darkness.

    People who walk in darkness are not born of Godly seed. (1 John 3:9) They bear evil fruit.
    "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." (Ja 5:20)

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