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Thread: The Blatantly Corrupt And Grievously Flawed NWT

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    Default The Blatantly Corrupt And Grievously Flawed NWT

    Hi All,

    I often see comments degrading the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures - the JW's Bible. But when I ask those people to show me the flawed verses, they can't ever seem to produce any. So here is your chance to show us where those blatantly corrupt and grievously flawed verses are.

    I only ask that you list ONE SCRIPTURE AT A TIME - so we can then DISCUSS that scripture, using lexicons and dictionaries - and find out if it truly IS blatantly corrupt and grievously flawed in the NWT.

    In other words, don't paste a huge list from the web, and then just walk away without DEFENDING your claim that those scriptures are mistranslated.
    Who has a claim against me that I must pay? Everything under heaven belongs to me. (Job 41:11)

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    From the Michael = Jesus thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by walknlight View Post
    Bible verse's omitted or changed in the NIV

    New International Version

    Matthew 17:21
    Matthew 18:11
    Matthew 23:14
    Mark 7:16
    Mark 9:44/Mark 9:46
    Mark 11:26
    Mark 15:28
    Mark 16:9–20
    Luke 17:36
    Luke 23:17
    John 5:3–4
    John 7:53-8:11
    Acts 8:37
    Acts 15:34
    Acts 24:6p–7
    Acts 28:29
    Romans 16:24

    God Bless...
    The first on your list is Matthew 17:21...........

    NET
    [[EMPTY]] 1

    NIV
    [[EMPTY]]

    English Revised Version
    [[EMPTY]]

    NLT
    [[EMPTY]]

    BBE
    [[EMPTY]]

    NRSV
    [[EMPTY]]

    God's Word Translation
    [[EMPTY]]

    English Standard Version
    [[EMPTY]]

    New World Translation
    [[EMPTY]]


    The footnote #1 on the first translation listed above says:

    Many important mss (א* B Θ 0281 33 579 892* pc e ff1 sys,c sa) do not include 17:21 “But this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.”

    The verse is included in א2 C D L W 1,13 lat, but is almost certainly not original.

    As B. M. Metzger notes, “Since there is no satisfactory reason why the passage, if originally present in Matthew, should have been omitted in a wide variety of witnesses, and since copyists frequently inserted material derived from another Gospel, it appears that most manuscripts have been assimilated to the parallel in Mk 9.29” (TCGNT 35).

    The present translation follows NA27 in omitting the verse number as well, a procedure also followed by a number of other modern translations.


    So is this a "blatant and grievous error" committed by the NWT? Or does the best evidence on the subject show that those words are "almost certainly not original" - and are therefore left out of the vast majority of recent English translations?
    Who has a claim against me that I must pay? Everything under heaven belongs to me. (Job 41:11)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeboll64 View Post
    Hi All,

    I often see comments degrading the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures - the JW's Bible. But when I ask those people to show me the flawed verses, they can't ever seem to produce any. So here is your chance to show us where those blatantly corrupt and grievously flawed verses are.

    I only ask that you list ONE SCRIPTURE AT A TIME - so we can then DISCUSS that scripture, using lexicons and dictionaries - and find out if it truly IS blatantly corrupt and grievously flawed in the NWT.

    In other words, don't paste a huge list from the web, and then just walk away without DEFENDING your claim that those scriptures are mistranslated.
    Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

    NWT 10 and you made them to be a kingdom+ and priests to our God,+ and they are to rule as kings+ over the earth.”

    Epi is best translated as on or upon, But JWs believe Yeshua and his little flock will rule not on the earth, but over the earth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeboll64 View Post
    Hi All,

    I often see comments degrading the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures - the JW's Bible. But when I ask those people to show me the flawed verses, they can't ever seem to produce any. So here is your chance to show us where those blatantly corrupt and grievously flawed verses are.

    I only ask that you list ONE SCRIPTURE AT A TIME - so we can then DISCUSS that scripture, using lexicons and dictionaries - and find out if it truly IS blatantly corrupt and grievously flawed in the NWT.

    In other words, don't paste a huge list from the web, and then just walk away without DEFENDING your claim that those scriptures are mistranslated.
    Before I enter this conversation I need to know if you are ,or are not a Jehovah Witness ? Because I am uncertain what you are trying to convey here. MD
    " Aye Christian,,,know ye not that the one whom thou contendest against is none more than a reprobate ! To be burned at the last !" William Gurnell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sojourning View Post
    Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

    NWT 10 and you made them to be a kingdom+ and priests to our God,+ and they are to rule as kings+ over the earth.”

    Epi is best translated as on or upon, But JWs believe Yeshua and his little flock will rule not on the earth, but over the earth.


    Rev. 20:6, "Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years."

    1 Peter 2:9,11, "you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood...you as foreigners and temporary residents." 1 Peter 1:17, "during the time of your temporary residence." John 14:2, "In the house of my Father are many dwelling places." *Or, many abodes.

    "I am going my way to prepare a place for you." Verse 3, "so that where I am you also may be." Phil. 3:19,20, "and they have their minds on earthly things. But our citizenship exists in the heavens."

    And what great accomplishment did Jesus attain and where? Rev. 3:21, "just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne." Where is the Father's throne? Heb. 8:1, "Now this is the main point of what we are saying: We have such a high priest as this, and he has sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens."[COLOR="#FF0000"][/COLOR]

    And where does Jesus invite such ones who are faithful till death? Rev. 3:21, "To the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne." Mt 5:34, "neither by heaven, for it is God's throne." Jesus conquered to sit on his Father's throne. WHERE? In heaven.

    Mt 25:31, "When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne." Angels live in heaven, so Jesus own throne is likewise in heaven. Note what is coming soon, Rev. 19:14, "Also the armies in heaven were following him."
    Ps 103:20, "Praise Jehovah, all his angels, His ministers who do his will." Rev. 11:16, "24 elders who were seated before God on their thrones." Remember where God is? Heaven! Did Jesus promise his disciples thrones? Mt 19:28, "you who have followed me will sit on twelve thrones."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sojourning View Post
    Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

    NWT 10 and you made them to be a kingdom+ and priests to our God,+ and they are to rule as kings+ over the earth.

    Epi is best translated as on or upon, But JWs believe Yeshua and his little flock will rule not on the earth, but over the earth.
    Revelation 5:10
    NET
    You have appointed them as a kingdom and priests to serve our God........

    NIV
    You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God..........

    NASB
    You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God.........

    NLT
    And you have caused them to become Gods Kingdom and his priests........

    NRSV
    you have made them to be a kingdom and priests serving our God........


    I didn't know if you were comparing the KJV's "kings" with the NWT's "kingdom", so I listed these other translations that also have the correct "kingdom".

    As for "epi", here are the definitions, from NETNotes:
    1) upon, on, at, by, before
    2) of position, on, at, by, over, against
    3) to, over, on, at, across, against


    The NET Bible translates it as "over" 44 different times. And the KJV translates it as "over" in the following verse:

    Hebrews 10:21
    And having an High Priest over the house of God


    Also, the NWT isn't the only translation to render it as "over" in Rev 5:10...........

    MSG
    .......Priest-kings to rule over the earth.

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    .....and they shall reign over The Earth.

    Darby Bible Translation
    ......and they shall reign over the earth.

    Weymouth New Testament
    ......And they reign over the earth."



    So can we check this one off the list, along with Matthew 17:21?
    Who has a claim against me that I must pay? Everything under heaven belongs to me. (Job 41:11)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewDuvall View Post
    Before I enter this conversation I need to know if you are ,or are not a Jehovah Witness ? Because I am uncertain what you are trying to convey here. MD
    I am not a JW. And I am trying to prove that millions of people slam the NWT, just because they think it is a "cool" thing to do. But none of them can ever actually stand and defend that claim.

    Can YOU defend it? Or do you agree with me that the NWT is a fine translation of the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek scriptures?
    Who has a claim against me that I must pay? Everything under heaven belongs to me. (Job 41:11)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeboll64 View Post
    I am not a JW. And I am trying to prove that millions of people slam the NWT, just because they think it is a "cool" thing to do. But none of them can ever actually stand and defend that claim.

    Can YOU defend it? Or do you agree with me that the NWT is a fine translation of the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek scriptures?
    I'm not familiar with that bible . So I really cannot give any opinions as to it's validity . I personally use the KJV, NKJV, and the Thompson Chain link study bible. I also have several commentaries .Most of my study material centers around the Protestant Reformation. MD
    " Aye Christian,,,know ye not that the one whom thou contendest against is none more than a reprobate ! To be burned at the last !" William Gurnell

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeboll64 View Post
    Revelation 5:10
    NET
    You have appointed them as a kingdom and priests to serve our God........

    NIV
    You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God..........

    NASB
    You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God.........

    NLT
    And you have caused them to become God’s Kingdom and his priests........

    NRSV
    you have made them to be a kingdom and priests serving our God........


    I didn't know if you were comparing the KJV's "kings" with the NWT's "kingdom", so I listed these other translations that also have the correct "kingdom".

    As for "epi", here are the definitions, from NETNotes:
    1) upon, on, at, by, before
    2) of position, on, at, by, over, against
    3) to, over, on, at, across, against


    The NET Bible translates it as "over" 44 different times. And the KJV translates it as "over" in the following verse:

    Hebrews 10:21
    And having an High Priest over the house of God


    Also, the NWT isn't the only translation to render it as "over" in Rev 5:10...........

    MSG
    .......Priest-kings to rule over the earth.

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    .....and they shall reign over The Earth.

    Darby Bible Translation
    ......and they shall reign over the earth.

    Weymouth New Testament
    ......And they reign over the earth."



    So can we check this one off the list, along with Matthew 17:21?
    ἐπί
    epi
    Thayer Definition:
    1) upon, on, at, by, before
    2) of position, on, at, by, over, against
    3) to, over, on, at, across, against
    Part of Speech: preposition

    The use of a preposition and the translation thereof is dependent upon context. Epi is used in a number of cases where "on" would make no sense as well as cases where "over" would make no sense. Simply saying it was "translated" such and such so many times proves nothing in a case like this.

    As far as translations using "over" vs "on":

    ISV Rev 5:10 You made them a kingdom and priests for our God, and they will reign on the earth."

    YLT Rev 5:10 and didst make us to our God kings and priests, and we shall reign upon the earth.'

    ASV Rev 5:10 and madest them to be unto our God a kingdom and priests; and they reign upon earth.

    BBE Rev 5:10 And have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are ruling on the earth.

    CEV Rev 5:10 You let them become kings and serve God as priests, and they will rule on earth."

    DRB Rev 5:10 And hast made us to our God a kingdom and priests, and we shall reign on the earth.

    EMTV Rev 5:10 and have made them kings and priests to our God; and they will reign on the earth."

    ERV Rev 5:10 You made them to be a kingdom and to be priests for our God. And they will rule on the earth."

    ESV Rev 5:10 and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth."

    GNB Rev 5:10 You have made them a kingdom of priests to serve our God, and they shall rule on earth."

    GW Rev 5:10 You made them a kingdom and priests for our God. They will rule as kings on the earth."


    Since you quoted Metzger, perhaps you should read his article that spoke to his view of the NWT:

    http://www.bible-researcher.com/metzger.jw.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeboll64 View Post
    I only ask that you list ONE SCRIPTURE AT A TIME - so we can then DISCUSS that scripture, using lexicons and dictionaries - and find out if it truly IS blatantly corrupt and grievously flawed in the NWT. .
    Johnn 1:1 In [the] Prep
    746 [e] archē ἀρχῇ beginning N-DFS
    1510 [e] ēn ἦν was V-IIA-3S
    3588 [e] ho ὁ the Art-NMS
    3056 [e] Logos Λόγος, Word, N-NMS
    2532 [e] kai καὶ and Conj
    3588 [e] ho ὁ the Art-NMS
    3056 [e] Logos Λόγος Word N-NMS
    1510 [e] ēn ἦν was V-IIA-3S
    4314 [e] pros πρὸς with Prep
    3588 [e] ton τὸν - Art-AMS
    2316 [e] Theon Θεόν, God, N-AMS
    2532 [e] kai καὶ and Conj
    2316 [e] Theos Θεὸς God N-NMS
    1510 [e] ēn ἦν was V-IIA-3S
    3588 [e] ho ὁ the Art-NMS
    3056 [e] Logos Λόγος. Word.

    John 1:1, "The word was a god"
    In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. The New World Translation

    Polytheism and a pretty major false translation. This is necessary for JWs because of the denial of the claims of Christ. They have to change the Bible to affect that claim.
    ------------------------
    "He has shown you, O man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. But to do justly..and to love mercy...and to walk humbly with your God."

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