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Thread: John 4:24 What does "God is spirit" mean?

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    VCO



    You can be proud of the service you have made to your country and you can also know that I am proud of you as well.

    America is the greatest place to live in the world and you and all the other servicemen and women have guaranteed that. I am very thankful for you.

    Timberdoodle

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    Simply, Truth testified some two thousands years ago:

    "Love not the world".......(l John 2:15)

    For "the WHOLE(not just a portion, that place on earth they call the u.s.a, inclusive) world is under the control of the evil one”....... (I John 5:19)

    And it was prophesied that "evil men and seducers would wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived" ;-( (ll Timothy 3:!3)

    Thankfully "whoever is Born of GOD overcomes the world, and this is The Victory that overcomes the world, even our Faith!" (I John 5:4)

    And John testified, “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world will pass away, and the lust thereof: but he that does the will of The Only True GOD will abide for ever.”(I John 2:15-17)

    The Messiah testified, “If you were of the world, the world would love it’s own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said unto you, the servant is not greater than his Master. If they have persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept My saying, they will keep yours also.” (John15:19-20)

    James testified, “Where do wars and fighting among you come from? Do they not come of your lusts that war in your members? You lust, and have not: you kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: you fight and war yet you have not, because you ask not. You ask, and receive not, because you ask amiss, that you may consume it upon your lusts. You adulterers and adulteresses, don’t you know that friendship with the world is to be at enmity with The Only True GOD? Therefore whoever will be a friend of the world is the enemy of The Only True GOD.” (James 4:1-4)

    The Messiah testified, “The world cannot hate you; but the world hates Me, because I testify that the works of this world are evil.” (John 7:7)” And Paul testified, “The Messiah gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of The Only True God, Our Father.”(Gal 1:4)

    The Messiah testified: “If the world hates you know that it hated Me before it hated you.”(John 5:18) Truly, Truly, I say unto you, except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abides alone: but if it die it brings forth much fruit. He that loves his life in this world shall lose it; and he that hates his life in this world shall have it unto life eternal.” (John 12:24-25)

    John testified: “Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hates you.” (I John 3:13)

    James testified, “Whoever would be a friend of this world is the enemy of GOD!” (James 4:4)

    "Come Out of her(babel>confusion>babylon<>world>religion), MY people"!

    "Come Out" of the systems that are of this wicked world(babylon>babel>confusion), and especially it's systems of religion for they but carry on the legacy of the pharisee's ;-(

    Global warming, polluted air, land and waters; toxic wastes, sexual perversion, evil inventions of destruction, systems of religion, lies, deception, delusion, greed, hate, carnal warfare, dis-ease(no-peace),,etc,, are all destructive processes that have their root in “the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life” which caused Eve to fall victim to 'd'evil, and which continue to fuel the fires of mankind’s “imag”ination ;-(

    "Come out from among them and be separate"!

    No longer have your portion with those who are destroying Creation(air, water, land, vegetation, creatures) and perverting that which is Spirit(Truth, Light, Life, Love, Peace, Grace, Faith,,,, All that is Truly Good)! 

    Be of the brethren of The Messiah who have taken heed unto The Call to "Come Out of her, MY people!"! For we no longer have our portion with those who follow "the broad way that leads to destruction"! (Revelation 18:4, Matthew 7:13)

    Thankfully we are but "aliens and pilgrims while on the earth" for our "citizenship(Life) is in Heaven" and soon, and very soon, we will be taken HOME, HOME at last! (Hebrews 11:13, 1Peter 2:11, Philippians 3:20)

    Till then:

    HOPE IS!

    For TRUTH IS!

    Father Help! and HE does.......

    Peace, in spite of the dis-ease(no-peace) that is of this world and it's systems of religion, for "the WHOLE(not just a portion) world is under the control of the evil one" indeed and Truth......(1 John 5:19)
    ....religion is anti-messiah....
    Come Out of her, MY people!
    .For The Faithful ARE Family.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elderchild View Post
    Simply, Truth testified some two thousands years ago:

    "Love not the world".......(l John 2:15)

    For "the WHOLE(not just a portion, that place on earth they call the u.s.a, inclusive) world is under the control of the evil one”....... (I John 5:19)

    And it was prophesied that "evil men and seducers would wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived" ;-( (ll Timothy 3:!3)

    Thankfully "whoever is Born of GOD overcomes the world, and this is The Victory that overcomes the world, even our Faith!" (I John 5:4)

    And John testified, “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world will pass away, and the lust thereof: but he that does the will of The Only True GOD will abide for ever.”(I John 2:15-17)

    The Messiah testified, “If you were of the world, the world would love it’s own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said unto you, the servant is not greater than his Master. If they have persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept My saying, they will keep yours also.” (John15:19-20)

    James testified, “Where do wars and fighting among you come from? Do they not come of your lusts that war in your members? You lust, and have not: you kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: you fight and war yet you have not, because you ask not. You ask, and receive not, because you ask amiss, that you may consume it upon your lusts. You adulterers and adulteresses, don’t you know that friendship with the world is to be at enmity with The Only True GOD? Therefore whoever will be a friend of the world is the enemy of The Only True GOD.” (James 4:1-4)

    The Messiah testified, “The world cannot hate you; but the world hates Me, because I testify that the works of this world are evil.” (John 7:7)” And Paul testified, “The Messiah gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of The Only True God, Our Father.”(Gal 1:4)

    The Messiah testified: “If the world hates you know that it hated Me before it hated you.”(John 5:18) Truly, Truly, I say unto you, except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abides alone: but if it die it brings forth much fruit. He that loves his life in this world shall lose it; and he that hates his life in this world shall have it unto life eternal.” (John 12:24-25)

    John testified: “Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hates you.” (I John 3:13)

    James testified, “Whoever would be a friend of this world is the enemy of GOD!” (James 4:4)

    "Come Out of her(babel>confusion>babylon<>world>religion), MY people"!

    "Come Out" of the systems that are of this wicked world(babylon>babel>confusion), and especially it's systems of religion for they but carry on the legacy of the pharisee's ;-(

    Global warming, polluted air, land and waters; toxic wastes, sexual perversion, evil inventions of destruction, systems of religion, lies, deception, delusion, greed, hate, carnal warfare, dis-ease(no-peace),,etc,, are all destructive processes that have their root in “the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life” which caused Eve to fall victim to 'd'evil, and which continue to fuel the fires of mankind’s “imag”ination ;-(

    "Come out from among them and be separate"!

    No longer have your portion with those who are destroying Creation(air, water, land, vegetation, creatures) and perverting that which is Spirit(Truth, Light, Life, Love, Peace, Grace, Faith,,,, All that is Truly Good)! 

    Be of the brethren of The Messiah who have taken heed unto The Call to "Come Out of her, MY people!"! For we no longer have our portion with those who follow "the broad way that leads to destruction"! (Revelation 18:4, Matthew 7:13)

    Thankfully we are but "aliens and pilgrims while on the earth" for our "citizenship(Life) is in Heaven" and soon, and very soon, we will be taken HOME, HOME at last! (Hebrews 11:13, 1Peter 2:11, Philippians 3:20)

    Till then:

    HOPE IS!

    For TRUTH IS!

    Father Help! and HE does.......

    Peace, in spite of the dis-ease(no-peace) that is of this world and it's systems of religion, for "the WHOLE(not just a portion) world is under the control of the evil one" indeed and Truth......(1 John 5:19)

    Misapplied contradicting what HE has clearly commanded us to do:

    Matthew 22:21 (ESV)
    21 They said, “Caesar’s.” Then he said to them, “Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”

    Romans 13:1-2 (ESV)
    1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
    2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.


    Romans 13:5-7 (ESV)
    5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
    6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing.
    7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

    1 Peter 2:13-15 (NKJV)
    13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
    14
    or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
    15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--


    1 Peter 2:17 (NKJV)
    17Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.

    I know that is hard with Oboma, but God wants us to honor the position of President.


    U&U


    Isaiah 11:12 (GW)
    12 He will raise a banner for the nations {to gather around}. He will gather the outcasts of Israel and bring together the scattered people of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

    WGY

    Jewish Christians is definately nothing new:

    http://www.threemacs.org/themes/jewish/answers.htm


    Is it just a coincidance that Jewish Christian symbols are showing up everywhere, while Jews are being gathered back into the land?


    http://www.christianbook.com/Christi...o=6010696#curr

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/925-Sterling...7007%26ps%3D54

    http://www.cafepress.com/dd/8467668

    http://www.cafepress.com/+star_of_da...SE&pid=5185601

    http://www.cafepress.com/+lion_of_th...hirt,628895648

    http://www.cafepress.com/+lion_of_th...hirt,631946056

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism

    http://www.mjaa.org/site/PageServer

    http://jewsforjesus.org/

    http://www.ifcj.org/site/PageNavigat.../USENG_homenew


    I think not:

    Jeremiah 30:10-11 (ESV)
    10 “Then fear not, O Jacob my servant, declares the Lord, nor be dismayed, O Israel; for behold,
    I will save you from far away, and your offspring from the land of their captivity.

    Jacob shall return and have quiet and ease, and none shall make him afraid.
    11 For I am with you to save you, declares the Lord;
    I will make a full end of all the nations among whom I scattered you,
    but of you I will not make a full end.
    I will discipline you in just measure, and I will by no means leave you unpunished.
    Last edited by VCO; 04-29-2012 at 07:50 PM.
    U&U

    Titus 2:13
    VCO -aka- DC

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    "Love Not The World!" for "The WHOLE(not just a portion) is under the control of the evil one"!

    VCO )-; Just another member of the walking dead )-; who swears his allegiance to a perverse nation that is of this wicked, evil world )-;

    Sadly, he has never realized that "The KINGDOM of GOD IN HEAVEN" HAS "COME"!

    Because he has been braindirtyed to the utmost, and is held captive by the strong delusion that is religion )-;

    Yet he most certainly fits the mold!

    For the fruit of death is bore of religion's way,
    Because life is but a pawn in the wicked game they play!

    "Come Out of her(babel>confusion>babylon<>world>religion), MY people!"

    Have your portion with The Messiah in The Family of Our Father and GOD! (Eph3:15)

    And NEW "Jerusalem above is the mother of us all"! (Gal4:26)

    Thankfully we are "aliens and pilgrims while on the earth", and our "citizenship(Life) is in Heaven", and soon, and very soon, we will be taken Home, Home at last!

    Till then:

    Father Help! and HE does.......
    ....religion is anti-messiah....
    Come Out of her, MY people!
    .For The Faithful ARE Family.

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    Default reply to Dartman part 1

    Dartman: Ok, first off, I am puzzled. I have been waiting for you to follow through on the challenge you accepted, which is; I would be happy to TRY a discussion about the trinity where only quotes of scripture could be used in the discussion. Do you think you can explain your doctrine without one single man-made phrase or term? I think I can explain mine! You up for that challenge?
    If THAT is what you are TRYING to do, there are some glaring holes in your point.
    My whole explanation is the bible in it's entirety, in context, under guidance of the Holy Spirit.
    That is as close to a summation as I can present to you.

    We can take, point by point, or verse by verse and it can be glaringly obvious to anyone without an erroneous doctrinal bias based on intellectual understanding as opposed to spiritual enlightenment. I would like to say at this point, that from a natural perspective, we would agree that the previous statement appears to exude arrogance and pomposity, however from a spiritual perspective how can it be rephrased to retain the truth of what is states without compromise?
    The Word states it this way.
    Rom 9:14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
    16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

    Dartman, if, at this point, you are willing to continue, I am willing to use scripture only in our discussion.


    Dartman:
    1) What does Jehovah creating Adam and Eve have to do with this?
    3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
    4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
    5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
    6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
    7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
    8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
    9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
    10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
    11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
    12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
    14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    2) Jesus being the "image" (the statue, likeness) of God, God who is temporarily unseen, PROVES that God IS a visible being! How could he be the "image" of something not visible??
    23but, there cometh an hour, and it now is, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father also doth seek such to worship him;
    24God [is] a Spirit, and those worshipping Him, in spirit and truth it doth behove to worship.' YLT


    13who did rescue us out of the authority of the darkness, and did translate [us] into the reign of the Son of His love,
    14in whom we have the redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of the sins,
    15who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,
    16because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
    17and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted.
    who is the image of the invisible God, PROVES that God IS a visible being?


    3) Jesus IS the "first fruits" of the new creation, and all principalities, thrones, lordships and authorities HAVE been created through him, by him and for him. His Father GAVE them to him!
    1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; 2this one was in the beginning with God;
    3all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened.YLT

    14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

    17Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. 18Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
    Last edited by JonMarie; 04-30-2012 at 05:19 PM.
    _______________________
    Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
    14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

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    Default reply to Dartman part 2

    4) The works that Jesus did "in the name of my Father", the words the Father gave Jesus, the sheep the Father gave Jesus, the works Jesus did that came FROM his Father PROVES that Jesus and his God are one in words, works, mind and goals. And, since Jesus submitted his will to the Father's will, they are one in will; Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
    5For, let this mind be in you that [is] also in Christ Jesus, 6who, being in the form of God, thought [it] not robbery to be equal to God,
    7but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made,
    8and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross,
    9wherefore, also, God did highly exalt him, and gave to him a name that [is] above every name,
    10that in the name of Jesus every knee may bow -- of heavenlies, and earthlies, and what are under the earth --
    11and every tongue may confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    30I and my Father are one.


    10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?

    1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

    21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

    27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

    1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
    2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
    3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

    21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
    23Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
    24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.


    28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


    9In this was manifested the love of God in us, because His Son -- the only begotten -- hath God sent to the world, that we may live through him; 10in this is the love, not that we loved God, but that He did love us, and did send His Son a propitiation for our sins. YLT
    _______________________
    Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
    14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timberdoodle View Post
    VCO
    You can be proud of the service you have made to your country and you can also know that I am proud of you as well.
    America is the greatest place to live in the world and you and all the other servicemen and women have guaranteed that. I am very thankful for you.
    Timberdoodle
    VCO, I have zero respect for you as a theologian and have said so... but if you are a US soldier in the field, I have nothing but pity and admiration... Pity because you are sent into the field with one (or possibly two) hands tied behind your back, crappy intel, and a dubious objective... and yet you put your balls on the line like it was your own mother you were interceding for...

    So, my hat is off to you... Amaste... but do your best to get home safe, because you could discharge your job 10000 percent and the world would still be a sewer....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    I would agree they saw God in him.... but NO WHERE did anyone see "him as God in the flesh". Jesus himself tells us our God is his God, his Father is his God.

    You know, if someone were just starting today to spread the apostasy that is the trinity, and NO ONE had heard this concept of someone being their own Father, (which your post tries to prove), they would be laughed at, or ignored.
    To the human part of JESUS you are correct, it is the SPIRITUAL part of JESUS that is part of GOD.

    THUS He is both Human, son of David, AND Spiritually GOD the SON. HE is both.
    U&U

    Titus 2:13
    VCO -aka- DC

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    Meanwhile, back to the OP.

    The crucial issue here is, does the Bible teach there is ANY such thing as a "non-material being". I don't believe there is ANY question that the Bible MENTIONS this concept, but it is very important for us to understand whether this is a false doctrine or the truth.

    The 3 New Testament texts that mention this concept are;

    Matt 14:26-27 And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.

    27 But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid.


    Mark 6:49-50
    But when they saw him walking upon the sea, they supposed it had been a spirit, and cried out:



    50 For they all saw him, and were troubled. And immediately he talked with them, and saith unto them, Be of good cheer: it is I; be not afraid.



    Luke 24:36-40 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 38 And he

    said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.


    40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.




    In all three of these cases, the inexperienced apostles were wrong. Jesus corrected them. This neither proves nor denies the concept. Jesus does say "a spirit hath not flesh and bones"... which is a discussion OF the concept, but isn't agreeing WITH the concept of a "non-material being". In other words, if I saw a coffin, and suddenly someone inside the coffin sat up, I might be VERY startled and say, " I thought you were a vampire"! The prankster could then say "Goofy, it's broad daylight! Vampires can't be out in the daylight!".... (which might conflict with modern movie lore, but is consistent with SOME mythical limits of vampires). Their response isn't an agreement that vampires actually exist, it is an explanation within the context of the premise, that disproves my reaction.

    Also notice Jesus asks the apostles; "Why are ye troubled? Why do thoughts/imaginations/doubts arise in your hearts?" I included some of the ways the Greek word is translated, to give some understanding of Christ's implication this was a superstition, RATHER than a reality.

    IF these 3 passages were the ONLY comment the Bible makes on this topic, we would be left with no definitive statement. These 3 verses do NOT make a clear statement about this notion, other than to note that the reality was, no 'ghost' was involved. No proof that "ghosts" literally exist. Jesus DOES correct the apostles within the context of the concept, but does NOT make a statement as to the accuracy OF the concept.

    The texts that are mentioned most often, that discuss this concept in the Old Testament are;

    1 Samuel 28, (the Witch of Endor),

    Eccl 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.



    Eccl 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?




    In 1 Samuel 28 we have NO definitive answer whether this is a 'ghost', a literally resurrected Samuel, or a VISION seen by the "witch" and heard by Saul. The text simply does not say. What is clear is;
    1) this event was VERY surprising to the witch
    2) the information was totally accurate, and seems to have come from Jehovah,
    3) Samuel came UP out of the earth and Saul and his sons were going to join Samuel the next day; 1 Sam 31:6 So Saul died, and his three sons, and his armourbearer, and all his men, that same day together.


    The text in Eccl 12:7 is a clear reference to Gen 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. What 'spirit' did God 'give'? The BREATH! This is verified in Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils; And in Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.


    The text in Eccl 3:21 is VERY interesting! Notice, it is a QUESTION, NOT a statement! And, what does the context show?
    Eccl 3:18-22 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. 19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth

    beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath (
    RUACH); so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. 20 All go unto one place; all are of

    the dust, and all turn to dust again. 21 Who knoweth the spirit
    (RUACH) of man that goeth upward, and the spirit (RUACH) of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? 22 Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing

    better, than that a man should
    rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?

    The context shows a STATEMENT that the "RUACH" (spirit/breath) of men goes the same place as the "RUACH" of beasts. AND They ALL go "to dust again".


    The texts that are PURPORTED to "teach" there is a "non-material being/entity" actually teach no such thing.

    Now, are there scriptures that actually TEACH what the nature of life is? Oh, yes! I thought you would never ask!

    Gen 3:19 in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.


    I emphasized "thou", to make the point that Jehovah is telling Adam what is going to happen to Adam. Notice, this is not what will happen to "your shell", this is what will happen to YOU! Yes, the BREATH goes back to God who gave it. I don't believe this requires the breath to literally end up in heaven, that would be difficult and pointless, but possession changes.... God gave it, God gets it back.

    So, what HAPPENS during death?? Do the scriptures teach the righteous sit on clouds, watching their loved ones make a total mess of their lives, while playing harps?

    Not that I have EVER found.

    Do the scriptures teach that the dead are "ASLEEP"?

    Yes, more than 50 times this is stated;

    2 Sam 11:9
    1 Kings 2:10
    1 Kings 3:20
    1 Kings 11:21
    1 Kings 11:43
    1 Kings 14:20
    1 Kings 14:31
    1 Kings 15:8
    1 Kings 15:24
    1 Kings 16:6
    1 Kings 16:28
    1 Kings 19:5
    1 Kings 22:40
    1 Kings 22:50
    2 Kings 8:24
    2 Kings 10:35
    2 Kings 13:9
    2 Kings 13:13
    2 Kings 14:16
    2 Kings 14:22
    2 Kings 14:29
    2 Kings 15:7
    2 Kings 15:22
    2 Kings 15:38
    2 Kings 16:20
    2 Kings 20:21
    2 Kings 21:18
    2 Kings 24:6
    2 Chron 9:31
    2 Chron 12:16
    2 Chron 14:1
    2 Chron 16:13
    2 Chron 21:1
    2 Chron 26:2
    2 Chron 26:23
    2 Chron 27:9
    2 Chron 28:27
    2 Chron 32:33
    2 Chron 33:20
    Matt 27:52
    1 Cor 15:20
    John 11:11

    Deut 31:16
    2 Sam 7:12
    1 Kings 1:21
    Job 7:21
    Job 14:12
    Dan 12:2
    1 Cor 15:51
    1 Thess 5:10




    This list does NOT even include those references that discuss "Awaking" from death at the resurrection! Or those that state the righteous and wicked are ALL in their graves/tombs/dust/sea/earth ... etc.

    The body of verses that TEACH that death is NO activity/thought have been listed before, but for the sake of those that might have missed it, here is a partial list;

    Ps 146:3-4 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. 4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.


    Eccl 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.


    Eccl 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do (it) with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in Sheol, whither thou goest.


    Isa 38:18-19 For Sheol cannot praise thee, death cannot celebrate thee: They that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. 19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day:




    The Biblical teaching is, man is a material being kept alive by God's breath. When man dies, he is REALLY dead, no thoughts or actions. Our next 'waking' moment is resurrection, either the first, or the second resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection!

    So, how does that relate to the OP? I hope by now you can see the Biblical STATEMENTS that rule out the concept of a "ghost". OH, yes, MOST of the religions on the planet believe in this notion, but the Bible just does NOT teach it!

    The Bible STATES God made us to look like Him, His son looks EXACTLY like Him.
    The Bible STATES Moses saw God's back parts, but was NOT allowed to see His FACE, or Moses would have died!
    The Bible STATES Moses was so bright, (glorious), after he saw Jehovah, that his face shone so bright the children of Israel asked Moses to wear a veil.
    The Bible STATES that the righteous WILL see God, as an eternal reward! Even His FACE!~.~

    The phrase "God is spirit" is ripped out of context and totally misapplied. The word "spirit" is BLUDGEONED into a pagan, 'trinitarian friendly' meaning, when the context WILL NOT support that definition.
    The REAL meaning of the context is; God is a MIND SET, and those that worship Him, MUST worship with HIS MIND SET, and TRUTH!
    That MIND SET is, God's values, God's love, God's judgement and righteousness.
    This is in contrast to the very liturgical, ritualistic worship of the Jews.
    Re-read the context in John 4, THAT is what the text means! It is by NO means discussing God's NATURE!! AND, with what we know the scripture teaches about man's nature, "in spirit" for the worshiper CAN NOT mean in some 'non-material entity'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VCO View Post
    To the human part of JESUS you are correct, it is the SPIRITUAL part of JESUS that is part of GOD.

    THUS He is both Human, son of David, AND Spiritually GOD the SON. HE is both.
    "Spiritual" only means "like God's mind" in this case. There is NO scripture that teaches any "non-material essence/entity/being" exists. There are NO scriptures that teach or state "God the SON".

    Both of those notions are pagan, and are UBIQUITOUS in false god worship.

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