Reply With Quotejustmeagain (07-30-2010)
I don't feel that the 5th trump has sounded yet. For when it is it seems a great swarm of angelic beings will be visible on earth.Originally Posted by justmeagain
And yes, I agree that God will be using this army as part of His plan to discipline His children.
"Issachar is a strong ass couching down between two burdens; and he saw that rest was good, and the land that it was pleasant; and bowed his shoulder to bear, and became a servant unto tribute. "
justmeagain (07-30-2010)
Yes, I agree wholeheartedly with that. Nothing else would explain the the great confusions of sundry doctrines within the field of Christianity that clearly already exists.
Kyrigma said, "The star called Wormwood spoken of in Revelation, I believe, is Satan when he is cast out of heaven down to the earth. Satan will intoxicate people with lies that he is Christ and most will believe him, thus making the sea of people very bitter with poison."
I cannot for the life of me see how he cannot see that this has already happened. I cannot understand how anyone can think the "strong delusion" spoken of at 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2 is yet to the future.
In my opinion one must be blind and deaf not to see it.
We can list examples of that delusion that would fill a book larger than the Bible.
I am having serious doubts however that the army of the book of Joel is in any way a Christian army.
How can you explain the point Kyrigma made concerning Joel 2:20 and the stink their carcasses create otherwise?
Joel 2:20 *But I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things.
The fullness of it is when Satan himself stands in Jerusalem claiming to be Christ.
This is the falling away. The land becomes as Sodom and Gommorah when all of the land whores after Satan and worships him as Christ. They are practically doing it now before he is even here but the fulness will happen when the abomination of the desolator is fulfilled.
Those who do become spiritually impregnated by Satan: 'woe to them who are with child and give suck in those days'(paraphrased from memory).
"Issachar is a strong ass couching down between two burdens; and he saw that rest was good, and the land that it was pleasant; and bowed his shoulder to bear, and became a servant unto tribute. "
That Jerusalem is the focus then.
Do the scriptures mean that will be in the earthly estate called Jerusalem?
Or, Do the scriptures mean that will be in the spiritual heavenly estate called Jerusalem?
Galatians 4:26 *But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Last edited by justmeagain; 07-30-2010 at 06:36 PM.
I would have to say that is earthly Jerusalem.
I don't think that Satan is able to exalt himself this way in Heaven. He may wish to but since Christ is there it would be impossible. Unless Satan could kill Christ and that is an complete impossibility.
Earthly Jerusalem is God's favorite place on the entire Earth and it is the city of Jerusalem that has been besieged throughout history and has been the central point of many events in the Bible. I feel that the Jerusalem that will become encompassed about with armies is the Jerusalem on earth.
Ezekiel 17:
12Say now to the rebellious house, Know ye not what these things mean? tell them, Behold, the king of Babylon is come to Jerusalem, and hath taken the king thereof, and the princes thereof, and led them with him to Babylon;
13And hath taken of the king's seed, and made a covenant with him, and hath taken an oath of him: he hath also taken the mighty of the land:
14That the kingdom might be base, that it might not lift itself up, but that by keeping of his covenant it might stand.
15But he rebelled against him in sending his ambassadors into Egypt, that they might give him horses and much people. Shall he prosper? shall he escape that doeth such things? or shall he break the covenant, and be delivered?
16As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely in the place where the king dwelleth that made him king, whose oath he despised, and whose covenant he brake, even with him in the midst of Babylon he shall die.
17Neither shall Pharaoh with his mighty army and great company make for him in the war, by casting up mounts, and building forts, to cut off many persons:
18Seeing he despised the oath by breaking the covenant, when, lo, he had given his hand, and hath done all these things, he shall not escape.
19Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; As I live, surely mine oath that he hath despised, and my covenant that he hath broken, even it will I recompense upon his own head.
20And I will spread my net upon him, and he shall be taken in my snare, and I will bring him to Babylon, and will plead with him there for his trespass that he hath trespassed against me.
21And all his fugitives with all his bands shall fall by the sword, and they that remain shall be scattered toward all winds: and ye shall know that I the LORD have spoken it.
22Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will also take of the highest branch of the high cedar, and will set it; I will crop off from the top of his young twigs a tender one, and will plant it upon an high mountain and eminent:
23In the mountain of the height of Israel will I plant it: and it shall bring forth boughs, and bear fruit, and be a goodly cedar: and under it shall dwell all fowl of every wing; in the shadow of the branches thereof shall they dwell. 24And all the trees of the field shall know that I the LORD have brought down the high tree, have exalted the low tree, have dried up the green tree, and have made the dry tree to flourish: I the LORD have spoken and have done it.
Last edited by Kyrigma; 07-30-2010 at 06:45 PM.
"Issachar is a strong ass couching down between two burdens; and he saw that rest was good, and the land that it was pleasant; and bowed his shoulder to bear, and became a servant unto tribute. "
Matthew 24:2 "And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
As I see it, all that happened with regard to that ancient fleshly Israel has a greater spiritual fulfillment.
I see the Jerusalem today not as that fleshly nation we see in the middle east, but the anointed church of Christ as the temple which is located in the spiritual estate called Jerusalem, as Paul spoke of at Galatians 4:26, the "Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."
I see that as being spoken of in heaven because it is the spiritual government that rests in Christ.
When Revelation 21:2 speaks and says, "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.", by "new" it merely means that that government has been completed. Revelation 21:5a "And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. ...."
And then completed and thus "new Jerusalem" in accord with "all things new", it then naturally falls next that we : Revelation 21:3 "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."
But what we are seeing in the prophecy of Joel and in the trumpets of Revelation as also in the destruction of the harlot, is that Jerusalem resting in the capable hands of Christ and being purged of and refined of the things that make it unholy. Thus it becomes "the holy city, new Jerusalem".
That is why even with the use of present tense speech Paul described it almost two thousand years ago in this way: Hebrews 12:22 "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 *To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 *And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel."
The church is the temple in the present spiritual estate of Jerusalem during the purification or recreation process of it being made new. Ephesians 2:19 "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 *And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 *In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 *In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."
And since prophecies like as Joel and the accounts of Revelation show this spiritual estate as undergoing a rigid purification process wherein all that is unholy is eventually burned away from it, (Pause for proof - 1 Corinthians 3:9 "For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 *According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 *¶For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 *Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 *Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.", it is evident then that this is where 2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4 has its fulfillment.
But I believe that Satan is working a machination in getting everyone's focus on the fleshly Jerusalem in the middle east today, as it lulls them to sleep as regards the purification that is being worked of God upon them as God's spiritual house.
I see what you are saying and I agree for the most part. Though, from Christ's own words we are to keep watch on earthly Jerusalem for much prophecy is yet to be fulfilled concerning her:
Luke 21:
17And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19In your patience possess ye your souls.
20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
34And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.-------------------------
Last edited by Kyrigma; 07-30-2010 at 07:17 PM.
"Issachar is a strong ass couching down between two burdens; and he saw that rest was good, and the land that it was pleasant; and bowed his shoulder to bear, and became a servant unto tribute. "
20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
The reason God allowed the Jerusalem of old to be overthrown for her unfaithfulness to his covenant and their rejection of his Christ.
That is what we see at Revelation chapters 17 and 18 concerning Babylon the Great. She is the unfaithful Jerusalem who became a lurking place for every unclean and hated thing, committed spiritual fornication through her fraternization with the nations
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21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Let those who are the true Judean kings to rule with Christ put their trust in God and live discreetly under the protection of the (mountains) nations. For that is why God allows these mountains to stand. (Ro 13: 4-6)
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23But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
The Christian ministry will become difficult and those doing as Paul said (Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,) will have their strength severely drained in effort to help their spiritual child.
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24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Brother will hate brother, children will betray their parents, and you will be delivered up to authorities on false charges just as Jesus was.
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25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
That sea is Isaiah 57:20. That sea becomes so agitated that it stirs of fear in those who do not understand what is taking place.
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27And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
But those who have insight will be comforted by knowing what is happening and why.
I said it before and I will say it again, the signs presented in Revelation are how we see Jesus coming in the clouds.
As to the world literally seeing Jesus coming, Jesus himself said: John 14:19 “Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.”
His followers continue to see him through spiritual eyes in many ways but the world can never see him that way for it is foolishness to them.
The world may realize it at the last second when it is too late. They should have listened and learned to know what they where seeing. But they didn't because it was foolishness to their minds.
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29And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
34And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.-------------------------
Amen.
Last edited by justmeagain; 07-31-2010 at 03:50 AM.
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